cable doubter no more

Viridian

I'm always amused by your posts in this thread.

ET

Cable threads are a hopeless proposition I suppose.

It's not hard to disprove an assertion though that all cables sound the same with some simple a/b tests on a decent system.

Beyond that, good luck!

I think cables can (usually) be an inexpensive way to upgrade sound however they are also 'tone controls' (per JA Stereophile)as well which can be an upgrade in itself.

I find that cables make a difference, although I'm not always convinced that "different" is the same as "better". I've never heard every cable in every possible combination of components with everybody else's ears. If somebody makes a change and likes it and feels it's an improvement, I'm happy for them. It may not work for me in my system with my ears, but that's fine, and also irrelevant to the person who likes the change in their system. I think the 20% improvement comment was just hyperbole. I also think the "You are worng " comment was not intended as an insult or childish retort. I take no offense from it. It's just the enthusiasm as a person who's changed their system to their satisfaction. Let's argue about something else other than that one person has become more enthusiastic about a part of the hobby. Lecture finished.

Even when we agree that cables can change the sound it gets ugly in this forum...

Cables threads are great.

So much is accomplished in each and every one.

"So would you also say dedicated circuits, electrical receptacles, power conditioners, and isolation transformers are merely tone controls? "

No.

They are a different kind of "tweak" that addresses a completely different aspect of the resulting sound.

im running the blackoval 9's single wire to sonus faber cremonas. i srarted with the ic's , then the speaker. i would say 50/50 on the level of improvement. the ic's giving more air and sparkle, then the 9's tightening things up giving it more focus and detail.

What version of Blackovals are you referring to - the 9 or 12; and are you running a single pair or bi-wired pair?
Additionally, in terms of your perceived "+20 percent improvement," do you find that one of the cables, IC or speaker cable, provides greater sonic improvements over the other, or is it clearly the combination of the two cables?

Thank you.

Wiring is a tweak like tone controls and power cords.

To my ears, they can and often do change the sound, but in of themselves won't make a bad system sound good and most decent wires probably will not make a good system sound really bad either.

Like so many other things in audio, its a matter of personal taste and overall system synergy. Wires can be an effective and relatively cost effective way to tweak a system.

I wouldn't go any further in bestowing value on wires than that.

ok, "you are wrong" was not intended as an attack, as much as a seeing the light kind of thing with cables

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Another saved.

I see the light too! However, my philosophy is somewhat different: any piece/group of equipment that improves by 20% with change of wires (no filters - some cables are actually filters which would be different) is either badly designed or something is already incompatible/broken in my book. So for sure a cable can make such a huge 20% difference but this simple fact points to another problem somewhere else. (remember an IC or cable is just wires).

So in my religion audio equipment should work well with any appropriate interconnects and cables and if it doesn't then I get worried about the short comings of the components or their fundamental compatibility with eachother.

A case can be made that if each of us could keep swapping out cables in our high end systems and repeat this process until we found the optimum sound from our gear, then cables could transform the performance in many of our setups. The problem is it's cost prohibitive. Even if you could keep borrowing through the Cable Company and had the time to keep the cables long enough for them to fully settle in, the cost of many cables is too high to begin with. You can buy used and still pay too much in some cases. So, due diligence with the value to performance cable designers is the only option for many audiophiles. Many have trials. Wouldn't it be fun to have 5 sets of IC's and SC's from different great cable makers and be given six months to try them to hear which ones would make your system sing? ;then be able to buy the best of the lot for your system at an affordable price? That would be the ultimate. I feel, we never truly know the many ways our gear and speakers can sound given the many cables available to connect it all together.

I think that Analysis Plus is one of the better values in cables and ICs. I'm using Solo Crystal Ovals with great pleasure. I also plan to buy a few of their power cords, which stood up well at RMAF when compared to some hyper-expensive PCs.

Dave

ok, "you are wrong" was not intended as an attack, as much as a seeing the light kind of thing with cables in mind.and 20% might be a bit of a stretch, but it did increase the sound quality a good bit,that i would consider an upgrade. but since the life has been sucked out of any real conversation about cables.ill just get back to listening to music. latter

You said "i upgraded my system"; were the new cables the ONLY change, or was there new component(s) involved too?

And I have to agree with Usblues. Making the 'YOU ARE WRONG' statement comes across as arrogant, as the change you heard may be specific to your system, ears and listening room, and those cables may just as easily degrade the sound of someone else's setup.

That said, I do believe cables make a difference (from personal experience), but maybe avoid the sweeping statements :)

Its just human nature to post that way and more of said human nature to reply that way and the reply to the reply.YOU ARE WRONG is a first grade emotion and pretty much dooms the post to a level of that which is in all of us from 5 to 85.Crayons,chalk,new friends,recess,wonderful smells,alliances,betrayals.As basic and predictable as the first Pong game.The Red Green ending then and adieu,cheers,Bob

SO tiresome: Hearing from all the deaf doubters out there!! Then again- Look how big Stereo Re-phew's(GAG) subscription list was. Oh well- Freedom of Speech(and, in some cases: Ignorance), made America what it is.

I'm still excited from my S/C enlightening experience!!!! Ohmmmmmm.

Viridian, so tiresome you found the time to waste on a post like that. i must have made the whole thing up just to keep you coming up with lame statements like that.

Thanks for posting your comments.

Not too many years ago people that believed in the merit of high end cables were dismissed as crazy. I've been into high end cables for more than 25 years and got a lot of grief in the beginning.

No doubt my wife still thinks I'm crazy, but high end cable performance is entering the realm of general audiophile acceptance now that people are experimenting, as you have.

agreed, im just very happy with the improvement, and im really probably in the same price range, if one were to pay full retail. one thing that they did other than sound so much more clear and open , is that they seem to put the instruments in there proper place, how thats even possible. just a complete makeover.

There's no doubt in my mind that no two IC designs sound the same.

Which are better than others though and which are worth the money? That's the tricky (and potentially expensive) part.