Cable Cooking/Burnin

@ihmeyers 
Which cable cooker did you purchase?

I received my Cable Cooker the other day and love it.  I have a technical question for those more versed in the science than I.

I was trolled and ridiculed on Head-Fi for talking about the cooker with a couple of respondents saying 'you can do the same thing with a $75 signal generator or a CD of the signals used by the cooker.'

My understanding is there is a lot more science to it than that, particularly the high output levels the Audiodharma generated.  I was hoping someone could comment on that.

FWIW, I closed my account on Head-Fi.  While there are some good folk on that forum there are also a lot of losers that sound as if they still live in their parents basement.  I would never knock someone enjoying music on an inexpensive headphone based system because that's what they can afford (been there/know that feeling) all the talk of 'you're an idiot, my $10 interconnects are as good as any $2k cables out there' gets a little tiresome.

Please post your findings...

Thanks Lak, if the answer is positive, i might just buy a cable cooker for "burning" everything. ;-)

Philipwu,
If I were you I would email or phone Alan at: http://www.audioexcellenceaz.com/ and discuss your question with him. Alan would know the correct answer.

hi,
have anyone tried using a cable cooker to burn-in audio equipment? by attaching cables to the audio component signal input & output, this would put your source or pre or power amp within the usual cable burn-in loop, then switch on your hifi equipment (of-course with volume level down).
would this cause damage or deterioration to the hifi-gears?
thank you for any advice!
-philip

For for those who have the Audiodharma Cable Cooker or any other commercial cable cooker: have you tried to find out what kind of signal is going through the cables? Even if you're not a DIY person, you can clamp a cheap full range speaker/driver (dont use a tweeter!)  to the speaker or RCA jacks. I suspect a frequency generator that does frequency sweeps lies at the heart of it. 
If so, it would be relative easy to buy such a device (under $60 shipped on Ebay) that you can feed into a el cheapo or unused receiver/amp with analogue out (for the ICs). The frequencies can be set for IC (audio range x3 i.e. upto the 3rd harmonics of highest range you can hear AND your amp can produce it, otherwise keep it simple to, say, 25-30kHz which may be out of spec for older receivers/amps) and PC, say 30-300Hz. Female IC connectors need to be DIY with a 10k resistor as load and SC be shortened with a 5 or 10 Ohm larger resistor to close the circuit. For the PC I would recommend to "condition" all 3 wires which means including the ground wire as well if that is used (so for those who use a ground cheater or on older tube amps). Banana plugs could be used from the audio out to the plug and IEC .  I am not an IEEE engineer but have vague memories of some classes that I took many decades ago.

I would like to add another component in making cables sound better. Having good experience with products from Synergistic Research, anyone tried to burn in their PC with 220V (*) or higher? Analogous with Geoffkait recommendation to home freeze components, getting a bit closer to cryogenic treatment, I wonder if simpletons like us can get a bit closer to quantum tunneling by stepping up the voltage and/or current?  

(*) a simple step up transformer ($50 or less) would do the trick. You need a Shuko plug/adapter ($5) for your PC and of course, a 220V load or put two high wattage 110V lamps in series. 
SR claims to use 2 million volts and it sounds (pun not intended) pretty much but any Electro Static Discharge (ESD) that we've experienced in very dry conditions or walking over carpets and then touching a doorknob or something/someone has experienced what at least 3k (upto 30k) volts must have felt with minimal current of course (anything more than 50 mA may cause a cardiac arrest).

Easier than walking over static carpet on purpose with cable in hand, one could use a simple car ignition coil module that generates 7k V for the spark plugs or even venture to 40k V with a battery driven step up high voltage generator if you know what you're doing. I have just ordered one for $10 shipped. 

/Geoffkait: re the home freezer method, would repeated freezing / thawing be beneficial?
And which cryogenic treatment service would you recommend? I have a slew of DIY and high end cables that I would like to have it done.

/vinylvalet: interesting you mentioned TG Audio (I am pretty sure Bob is not there anymore but Frank is now). They (still) make a very good power distribution box that supposedly beats the well respected Weizhi PRS-6, both boxes are machined out of aluminium. 

I use the Hagerman Audio Labs FryCleaner, an older kit version of their current lineup. They now offer three, pre-assembled products, all substantially less expensive than the audiodharma Cable Cooker.

Bob Crump (TG Audio) would string 100 or 150W light bulbs together in order to generate lots of current for his power cable break-in. He had all this in his garage. The cops came by one day thinking he was growing cannabis.

The home freezer method is 1) place item(a) in freezer, 2) keep them in freezer for 48 hours, and 3) take item(s) out of freezer and place them in refrigerator section for 8 hours or however long it takes for the item(s) to reach the temperature of the refrigerator which is around 38-40 F. Then remove and place on a table until room temperature is reached.  If you are freezing CDs be sure and wipe off the haze that accumulates on the data side of the CD during the whole process. If you'd rather be safe than sorry repeat the entire process.  

GK

I cook my cables using an old CDP and an old 25watt integrated amp, where I can set the volume, into a 10watt 5.5R resistor using a couple of music CD's that I like for this process :)

This is how I burnin my cables, ie ensure my cables have uniform microstructure, which works for me :)

geoffkait, perhaps you can tell us how you do your home freezer method.   Especially as it is a permanent method :)

Lak, I have the opposite results with cryoing gold.  I have cryo'd copper, silver, gold, aluminum, vinyl, plastic, ceramics, wood, brass.  All to good effect. There are some reasons why folks sometimes get negative results, not limited not waiting long enough to judge the sound after the item has been returned from the cryo lab due to the thermal shock involved that takes about a week to wear off.

From personal experience I would suggest that gold should "NOT" be cryoed because I believe it will degenerate the sonics. That's what happened in my experimenting.

Yping wrote,

""cryoing or freezing ANYTHING produces better sound. Even things completely unrelated to the audio system."

Maybe."

I trust you read between the lines that IF it's true, what I said, that cryoing or freezing ANYTHING is good for the sound it becomes harder and harder to attribute the reason to annealing or atomic structure reorganization or higher performance of the material in the traditional sense of the term: stronger, more ductile, harder, less brittle, etc. That is not to say these things aren't taking place. It's just that the operating mechanism is more mysterious.

{Signal charge/energy} energy is always in a search for a better pathway to ground

Signal charge/energy ... sounds reasonable :)

cryoing or freezing ANYTHING produces better sound. Even things completely unrelated to the audio system

Maybe :)

Tom, oh, no, not THAT again. Haha!

Yep..energy is always in a search for a better pathway to ground. Whether energy is riding in it or on it. Tom

Sorry for the AutoCorrect failure, unfortunate choice of words but not mine. I blame Apple. OK, so now we have a theory for CDs, Cryogenics or freezing improves the transparency. Without saying whether I agree with you or not, let me ask another question, What is the reason why LPs sound better after cryo/freezing? In fact, let me just cut to the chase and make a bold statement: cryoing or freezing ANYTHING produces better sound. Even things completely unrelated to the audio system.

I haven't mentioned anything about cryoing CDs, other than the freezer thing! Perhaps it improves material transparency through assisting with creating a more uniform microstructure!

What are your thoughts? although I would prefer not to know them if you are going to be rude (unfortunately, it would appear that you cannot help yourself)?

Annealing, it would appear can be used to make a soft or hard structure/state with a uniform microstructure! The main thing that was mentioned is that it is used to create a "uniform microstructure" in metal or other materials and the word is even used in Biochemistry with a similar meaning (recombine) :)

Yapping wrote,

"1. Annealing is a process used to bring a metal closer to its equilibrium state. In this soft state, the uniform microstructure will allow for excellent ductility and workability."

Again let me ask, what does annealing have to do with anything when cryoing CDs? What is your theory why cryoing CDs improves the sound?

I freeze for two days then slow thaw to room temp. It's permanent. I.e., irreversible.

definition of annealing...

1. Annealing is a process used to bring a metal closer to its equilibrium state. In this soft state, the uniform microstructure will allow for excellent ductility and workability.

2. To Soften... a process of softening a material (such as glass), metal (such as cast iron), or an alloy (such as steel) to make it less brittle by (1) heating it to a particular temperature, (2) maintaining it at that temperature for a particular duration, and (3) cooling it slowly to normal temperature at a particular rate. Opposite of tempering.

3. To Strengthen/Harden... a process of heating and slow cooling in order to toughen and reduce brittleness.

4. Biochemistry: recombine (DNA) in the double-stranded form.

No! Although I have done the CD in the freezer and found that the effect/change was temporary and maybe lasted about 1 play of the CD!

You have found putting wire in the Freezer has a permanent effect/change. Interesting, do you do this in a particular way and did you find it beneficial?

I am referring to the home freezer circa 10 degrees F. As I said previously all thermodynamic processes are permanent. When one cryogenically treats a CD are you suggesting the CD is annealed? ;-)

Ahh, did you meant liquid nitrogen home freezing?

From what has been written it would appear that a change to the physical state of metal could be loosely referred to as annealing!

So, heat annealing (heating and cooling), cryo annealing (freezing and warming), and electrical annealing, all change the physical state of metal (and other materials) and even the temper of the metal. It would appear that they could all be loosely grouped under the heading of annealing :)

I have tried Home freezing but it seems to be a temporary annealing or have you found a way that it is permanent? :)

I certainly do not think that cryogenics involves dipping something in liquid nitrogen and pulling it out. Whatever gave you that idea? It's all computer controlled or should be. I also am a big fan of home freezing, you know, to save on the cost and time of sending things off to the cryo lab. ;-)

Why do you think that electrical burn-in is as simple as that?

Do you think that Cryo is as simple as sticking some material (steel, aluminum, plastic, whatever) in liquid nitrogen then pulling it out again and it is all done!

Heating and cooling annealing is an exact process and in fact there are many standards...

There are probably many methods/processes of electrical annealing! ... isn't metallurgy/alchemy an amazing :)

Cryogenics benefits all or almost all materials, steel, aluminum, plastic, whatever. So most likely one shouldn't equate cryo with burn in. If you wish to burn in the entire system look no further than the XLO test CD burn in track. Put the player on REPEAT and let 'er rip. Case closed. That doesn't mean you can skip the cryo bit. See, there's always something. Lol

The directional alignment of the the material can be seen in the photo. My senses tell me that even further material alignment benefits direction and focus of energy. Material modulation is also enhanced with a much more uniform and reactive response.

Perhaps the electrical cooking/burnin (treatment/annealing) process is doing something quite similar... just takes a little longer :)

Less are saying nay today? Interesting....;-)

Cryo treatment is permanent unless the material is brought to or near its annealing temperature as told to me by Dr. Randall F. Barron of Louisiana Tech University. A thousand years ago or so I emailed the Dr. about the benefits of cryo treatment because of all the nay sayers on Audiogon. Less are saying nay today.

http://engineringcorner.blogspot.com/2011/09/cryogenic-heat-treatment.html

For me the sonic benefits of cryo treatment are added upon with several or many additional treatments though the first makes for the greatest level of improvement. The directional alignment of the the material can be seen in the photo. My senses tell me that even further material alignment benefits direction and focus of energy. Material modulation is also enhanced with a much more uniform and reactive response. Tom

Annealing and Thermodynamics (wiki page)

Annealing occurs by the diffusion of atoms within a solid material, so that the material progresses towards its equilibrium state. Heat increases the rate of diffusion by providing the energy needed to break bonds. The movement of atoms has the effect of redistributing and eradicating the dislocations in metals and (to a lesser extent) in ceramics. This alteration to existing dislocations allows a metal object to deform more easily, increasing its ductility.[citation needed]

The amount of process-initiating Gibbs free energy in a deformed metal is also reduced by the annealing process. In practice and industry, this reduction of Gibbs free energy is termed stress relief.[citation needed]

The relief of internal stresses is a thermodynamically spontaneous process; however, at room temperatures, it is a very slow process. The high temperatures at which annealing occurs serve to accelerate this process.[citation needed]

The reaction that facilitates returning the cold-worked metal to its stress-free state has many reaction pathways, mostly involving the elimination of lattice vacancy gradients within the body of the metal. The creation of lattice vacancies is governed by the Arrhenius equation, and the migration/diffusion of lattice vacancies are governed by Fick’s laws of diffusion.[2]

Perhaps the annealing process could be called a mechanical stress relief process, also, just a different way from Cryo and Cooking/Burnin. There are probably other ways, also :)

I would not call cryo an annealing process. I would probably call it a mechanical stress relief process, among other things.

... heat tempering to the metal conductor manufacturing process in addition to cold tempering (cryo)

Geoffkait, would you call cold tempering (cryo) an annealing process? If yes, then I guess Cooking/Burnin could be called an electrical annealing process or simply, an extension/continuance of the annealing process :)

It just occurred to me that the manufacturers of cable would be well advised to add heat tempering to the metal conductor manufacturing process in addition to cold tempering (cryo) which most of the high end cable companies already do. Just thinking out loud.

Yping did not put the annealing completion out there, he quoted KLE Innovations opinion.
Personally, I have no opinion on the annealing thing.
However, I have a high opinion of KLE Innovations products.

i'd cooked medium rare air with at least beer.

Runnin, that is correct. Also the wires need to be separated enough to not short out with each other. Using some form of insulation is unavoidable.

Yping, On the subject of annealing, you need to get copper red hot in order to anneal it. Which is over 840 degrees F. If your cables are getting anywhere near 840 degress F in use or on a cable burn in machine you will have a fire and burn all the insulation off the wire. So please pick a more likely theory than finishing of the annealing process.

Air has a problem. It allows oxidization.

do you have to cook/burn air too?

Yping, that's a big 10-4. By extension, ALL wire should be broken in, all transformers, all capacitors, all resistors, all connectors, all fuses, in short, EVERYTHING.

Air might be the best but it appears that cooking/burnin is still required! So as indicated, there is much more to cooking/burnin than just dielectric cooking/burnin. It would appear that Morrow method is flawed if it directed at just dielectric cooking/burnin... right :)

It would appear that the cooking/burnin process is definitely an extension/continuance of the annealing process which to me makes alot of sense :)

Yes, cotton and foam DC is higher than air. The foam or cotton are barely touching the conductor. And cotton and foam are guess what? Mostly air! Hel-loo! Air sounds the best, you can trust me. This is a case where what measures best actually sounds best.

Geoff, Cotton and foam still have a higher dielectric constant than air. Ideally we would want to have the cables in a vacuum as air still has a dielectric constant of 1.0. Not likely to happen though. We just have to do the best we can that is practical to do.

Geoffkait,
I think you're 500 miles high.
What did you use?
I wanna try!

Sarcher30 wrote,

Geoffkait: That's an interesting theory. How would you explain break in of cables with an air dielectric?"

Not sure I can explain it. Except that it hints that break in involves more than the dielectric. Perhaps the metal crystal structure is affected, difficult to say.

"Furthermore, how do you explain the barrage of testimonials regarding the break in of capacitors?"

I myself did not mean to say there is no break in of capacitors, I'm just saying there are reasons to doubt everyone who testifies is actually hearing what he says he's hearing, that's all. Who decides that 200 hours or 500 hours or whatever is the point when the sound stops improving? I mean, come on! Monkey see monkey do. ;-)

"Hi Geoffkait, air dielectric? The closest you can get to an air dielectric in audio cables is putting bare wire into tubes of insulation. The wire will still touch the insulation in spots and is still surrounded by insulation. This also separates the wires more which will raise inductance. There is no free lunch."

Yes, but touching the insulation in spots is better than touching it all along the entire length, no? Besides you. An use standoffs like cotton or foam to prevent the conductor from EVER touching the insulation.