Jdoris, we recently had granite counter tops installed in our kitchen. The contractor threw in three pieces of granite cut and drilled as part of the deal. The counter tops went in on schedule but I'm still waiting for the shelves and wondering if he's gonna come thru. Those guys have scrap pieces of stone that can be had fairly cheap. I'm thinking less than $400 for three shelves cut, polished and drilled. Probably less if you know somebody who does that work.
Built a Flexi-type rack?
I'm wondering about building a thread rod and butcher block type rack. Anthing other than the appropriate size nuts for for spacing the shelves? (Washers? Bushings?) Attractive treatment for top of rods? Effective treatment for footers? (Rack would sit on hardwood floor.)
Thanks!!
John
Thanks!!
John
61 responses Add your response
Hi Again! Thanks for the good cheer! OK, Yioryos, I'll put my rack up for $375. Just Kidding! Wonder how long I'd have to wait though, given cost of brass. You've of course a point about resale, although if one could get 50%, that w'd be pretty good -- I look to pay %60 for my components. On the Mapleshade. They use stainless, not brass: some people prefer the sonics of brass. I certainly prefer the cosmetics. I also expect there's some who would prefer the AudioPoints as footers -- StarSouunds certainly gets good press. On the other hand, I think the MS shelves are one piece, which some might prefer to block. Anyone got a ballpark on their shipping? I'm guessing north of $100, to many places. Timrhu: How does the granite effect costs? I think I've seen a company in Oregon selling a three shelf granite flexi for $1800 (!). Spencer: Should have pics this wkend. If you, or anyone else, wants a peek, drop me a line. Cheers, J |
Greetings! Finally got my rack built. Thanks to Richard, Slipknot, and everyone else for their imagination and good advice. Heres an after action report: The Finished Product: 4 Shelf Flexi-Rack: Brass Fittings and Maple Butcher Block Shelf dimensions: 23.5 Wide x 21 Deep x 1.5 Thick Usable shelf space: 20 Wide x 21 Deep Space between shelves: 12 (bottom), 8, 8 Height: 37.75 (floor to top of hex nuts on top shelf) Weight (estimated): 110 lbs Comments on Finished Product: This is not a petit piece of furniture. Think of a small apartment sized refrigerator, minus the freezer section. The 3 rods yielded ample shelf space for a 4 shelf unit. Plenty of room for my beefy Odyssey Stratos Dual Mono on bottom shelf, and for standard sized components (like my Marsh Pre and Jolida CDP) on the two remaining 8 inner shelves. There might be a problem if one had two components that required top access, say if a top loading CDP and a turntable; the 8 space might make dealing with a TL CDP awkward. The open design means cooling is not an issue. Materials: 4 3/4 x 10 Brass Threaded Rods (from McMaster-Carr); $47.48 x 4; $7. 25 SH; $ 197.17 4 Brass Acorn Nuts 3/4x10, $17.36; 35 Brass Thick Flat Washers 25/32 ID, 13/8 OD $ 95.34; 30 3/4 x 10 Brass Hex Nuts $46.80; $5.00 SH (McMaster Carr); Total for nuts etc, $164. 40 4 2 Audiopoint Internal Thread (#2.0AP-1KINT) $41.99 ea.; 4 Coupling Discs (#APCD2), $7.49 ea.; $10.85 SH (Star Sound Technologies); $ 208.77 1 Maple Butcher Block Counter Top 8 x 25 x 1.5 (Purchased Locally); $180.00 1 Bottle Boiled Walnut Oil $10.00 Total Materials: $760.34 Comments on Materials: Given the rising cost of metals, not a super cheap project. For comparison, the Mapleshade Sampson 4 shelf rack is currently $995 plus SH; they use 1.25 stainless steel rods. At current prices, other well -regarded commercial racks, like SolidSteel, are competitive, new or used. McMaster-Carr was the most reasonable provider for brass, overall, when I shopped. Boos makes excellent butcher blocks 24 x 18 x 1.5 for around $60 ea, around $100 for 2.5 thick. Although I like the look of the counter top I used (lots of color variation and imperfections for character), Id probably now use the Boos blocks (Id purchased the counter top for a different project ) since the labor savings would for me offset the added cost. The Walnut Oil is a great product. A slightly higher sheen oil finish, that dries a bit harder, and adds a bit of an attractive reddish hue. Much easier than poly and the like, and arguably better looking. Given what Id already spent, I splurged on the Audio Points. Robert at Star Sounds was very helpful, and I ended up believing in the product. Also, Audio Points make a very simple way to deal with footers. Again, reduced labor a plus for me. Technique: Cut butcher block to size Round edges with router Drill countersink holes with Forstner bit at depth and OD of washers, so washers will sit flush with finished surface. Drill 3/4 inch holes for rods, centers 1.75 on diagonal from corner. Sand Finish Assemble, building from ground up. Ensure shelves are parallel with combination square set to desired spacing. Tighten nuts. Place in desired location, leveling with Audio Points. Comments on Technique: The woodwork was done by a carpenter/furniture builder friend of mine, so except for the assembly, my knowledge is second hand. Drill press was equipped with a jig that allowed setting the holes w/o templates and the like. With the bits we used, a 3/4 bit made holes with sufficient play for assembly. Unfortunately, although Robert at Star Sounds recommends tightening nuts only hand tight, we needed to go a bit tighter for a stable structure. Wiping off some of the machining grease on the rods made the nuts turn much easier, probably because the grease contained filings from manufacturing which tended to jam the nuts. Countersinking the washers, although it increases the possibility of difficulty in assembly, gave the piece a cleaner look, and might marginally increase usable shelf space. Recommended. Help of a friend is recommended, both for assembling and placing the rack (to avoid butchering hardwood floors), and because turning all the $%%^%$@ nuts is a drag. The Audio Points leveled the rack beautifully, even on my 100 year old hardwood floor. Per Roberts instructions, I did not use lock nuts or the like. We figured 1.5 of rod below the bottom shelf, to allow space for nuts, and play for the Audio Points in leveling. Id reckon the labor at 5-8 hrs; for me, 4 times that shopping and figuring it all out. General Comments: Visually, the rack is not unattractive, though it is a bit industrial looking, and would be more at home in a post-modern loft than my antique house. Im reasonably pleased in this regard, though, and I personally think it looks as good as most price competitive racks, and I dont like the look of many much more expensive racks, with exceptions like Rix duly noted. Sonically, I cant tell folks what they would most like to know, since I have not carefully A/Bed it with competitors. I do think my system sounds noticeably better (more vibrant and articulate, esp. in the bass) than did my previous set-up, but that was cobbled together shelving ($0.00). Functionally, in addition to the ready cooling, the open design may facilitate wire management, as it does for me my outlet is directly beside the rack. Overall, hard to give a bottom line. Had I known the likely cost going in, Id have carefully considered other options, but I do like the rack pretty well, both visually and (so far as I am in a position to judge) sonically. Thanks again! John |
If you have a Lumber Liquidators near you, they have deal on nice 1-1/2" thick x 25" wide x 96" (or 144")long unfinished and sanded piece Maple butcher block. http://www.lumberliquidators.com/catalog/thumbnail.jsp?parentCategoryId=18&categoryId=21&nonFlooring=1&& I recently bought an 8-foot piece, cut it into six 25" x 16" sections, beveled the top edges (45-degree), and carefully drilled the holes with a Forsner bit. I then use a very light stain and sprayed them with a semi-gloss polyurethane and used the new Maple shelves to replace the black 3/4" MDF shelves that came with my old Michael Green Just-A-Rack. The Just-A-Rack came with 3/4"-10 black steel-rods and black jam-nuts as well as big heavy 3/4"-10 threaded cone spike feet and matching custom cap-nuts for the top shelf. Wow, what a difference in looks, and the sound seems to have improved as well. It's quite heavy. The best part is that I spent under $200 and a few hours to get a killer rack. Now, if I could just figure out how to post a picture . . . |
I was very lucky and was able to get my 1-3/4" maple shelving for free, they are old workbench tops that were being thrown away at work. I was able to make four shelves from one bench alone! I'll try posting some pictures as soon as I replace the steel rods and flange nuts with my new brass rods and fittings. |
I left the the grease on till near completion. I did remove the excess with a cotton rag before starting. You are going to be threading A LOT of nuts when you put the thing together. It makes the work somewhat easier. When you are ready to clean, Dawn dish soap with water and a sponge works, then use Brasso polish to shine things up. Then a final buff coat of paste wax on the shelves. |
Maril555: Heh-heh. Robert at Star Sound has been great. If it's any consolation, I got killed on the rest of the brass; I expect the total nears 600. I hope to be able to post a detailed project description shortly. Menwhile, the advice of Slipknot1 & Trelja is well taken: we're getting up to the price point of pretty nice commercial stuff. John |
I must say that the rack that Joe (Slipknot1) and Spencer (Sbank) put together for Spencer is the finest audio rack that I have encountered. I encourage anyone interested in pursuing this to go for it, I doubt you'll do better. But, as Joe pointed out, those Mapleshade Samson racks right now are looking VERY sweet from a dollars and sense perspective. |
Slipknot1 and I did a rack for my system that uses all McMaster-Carr hardware and maple shelves from perfectplank.com(thanks Trelja for that source). I agree with others that the key to the rack is easily adjustable shelves that are easy to level. Threaded rods and bolts/washers above & below each shelf are they way to go. If anyone wants to check my system page(http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vevol&1036941919&read&keyw&zzwarming ), you can see photos and a post with a parts list. Cheers, Spencer |
The price of brass is going up daily. If you add up the cost of 4 threaded brass rods, enough nuts and washers for a three shelf unit these days, you are close to 400.00 BEFORE adding in the cost of the shelf materials and cones for the feet. If you are using rock maple butcher block (18 x 24 x 1 1/2) you are going to be over 600.00 before the labor and finshing time. The Mapleshade Samson rack is starting to look like a good bargain..... As a point of reference, two years ago I bought 8 3ft 5/8-11 threaded brass rods from McMaster-Carr for 112.00 (14.00 each). |
Leveling a rack of this type can only be done by varying the depth the threaded rods are threaded into the cones at the bottom. Example: all rods should be the same length, so, on a level floor, the last nuts on top would all be threaded evenly onto the rods so that the rods are flush with the top nuts. If however, the floor is not level, then the threaded cones at the bottom of the rack would be unscrewed until level was achieved, this way, the top of the rods would still be even in the top nuts. A jam nut would have to be used on the bottom cones for this purpose. |
Maril555 is right; the beauty of the threaded rod is the ability to level anything anywhere. Looking at Jamestown's pricing, it will cost you no more than $12 and no more than 1" of space on the bottom shelf to simply level that bottom shelf on its own with four extra nuts. Getting those extra nuts will also save a lot of time...and it will keep the whole rack more versatile since the wood might warp a little. The ultimate goal in my mind is to get the components that are on the shelves level, which is what I always use as a reference. My 2" and 4" cherry shelves ended up not as flat after two or three years as they were when they were new. They are not butcher block though, they were very BIG boards originally [like 12 x 2 I think]. The 1" rod does pose an issue with the points. However, you could always rifle drill and tap into the end for a simple 1/4-20 thread and put stock Mapleshade or audio points on them. I have a set of solid 1.25" brass rods that I will be using for my new rack. A local machine shop cut them to length, truing each end of each rod, rifle drilled and tapped all three rods, then cut the excess material into 6 - .75"x 1.25 spacers that are also all drilled and tapped. All this for the whopping grand total of...$40 cash. My guess is that having any of these rods drilled and tapped for 1/4-20 thread would be very easy and reasonable. Plus...you'd have more options as to what to use for the points/feet. |
Slipknot raises a good question: How thick does the rod need to be? I handled some 3/4" stock today, and it struck me as a bit slight, but it ain't bending in this application, either. Put a dollar value on the question: Is an 1/8" thicker rod with Audiopoints worth $120 more than an 1/8" thinner rod with Salamander feet? Maril555: Haven't handled the materials yet, so this is speculative. But you might get a tighter assembly "bottoming out" the rods in the cones and using the bottom nut on the bottom shelf to level it, and build up from there. The locknut option is also a likely one, at the cost of 4 more nuts. Can't say which would be easier. John |
Dbld, You're right, Jamestown prices for nuts are about half of McMaster-Carr's. Jdoris, I did see the inner thread Audiopoints, seems like a way to go. Joe, Thanks for the info on Salamander stuff. Regarding leveling the rack, I thought, that using threaded rods would serve exactly that purpose, allowing to level each shelf individually, by moving holding nuts along the rod? Please, correct me if I'm missing something here. |
The way I went isn't cheap either. I had Lloyd Walker custom tap a set of large Valid Points to fit my rods, which are 5/8 -11 right hand thread. If you use 5/8-11 right hand thread, you can get a set of Salamander feet that work for about 39.00/set of 4. A compromise to be sure. Audio Advisor sells these. Depending on the weight you expect the rack to hold - I would be inclined to go that way before grinding the ends of the rod to a point. At least with the Salamander solution, you have the ability to level the structure. something much more difficult to achieve if you grind the rods down. |
Maril555: Looks like audiopoints does a version that is threaded to fit 3/4-10 rods. Not cheap, though, at about 42$ a pop. As Richard's last post indicates, you will still need to think through the leveling issue, if you go that way. Another, much cheaper (but less elegant), way to go would be to get a set of spikes from adona, or oregondv.com, etc., and mount them to the inside of the posts on the bottom shelf. I'm leaning towards Audiopoints, on Richard's advice, which is forcing me to resist the temptation Dbld notes, to go for rods thicker than 3/4". It would be cool to have really beefy rods, but my web-noodling has persuaded me that it is harder to find attendant hardware, such as points and acorn nuts, to fit the larger sizes. John |
Hi guys, Question: how do you plan to attach cones (Audiopoints or Mapleshade) to the brass rods? And what do you think about just grinding rods to a point, compared to above mentioned cones? I'm planning to go with 1'' rods. Looked-up requisite size nuts on McMaster-Carr, very expensive ($9.75 single nut), and I will need #32 for 4-shelf version. That's $300!!! Thanks. |
John, Nice score on the brass. I figured that since the final weight of the rack was in excess of 200 lbs while fully loaded, there was no need to firmly tighten all of the weight-bearing brass cones - the sheer weight of the rack alone would provide sufficient coupling in this instance. What I did was thread them all the way in (flush to the bottom brass nut on my rack), and then slowly loosened the sagging corners (in effect raising that corner). My basement floor, while ostensively level, was in practice nothing of the sort. I came up with a perfectly level bottom shelf, and levelled everything else from there. McMaster-Carr also has laminated brass washers in the requisite size that are layered in .01 inch increments. These allow firm coupling of the cone to the rack hardware, and can be trimmed in thickness (by peeling off layers) so that firm coupling can be achieved. I used these layered/laminated brass washers when installing the AudioPoints on the bottom of my speakers to great effect. Happy listening, -R. |
John Nice find on the brass rods!! I think I'm going to buy Mapleshade hardware just to make it a little easier...especially the footers part of the equation. Regarding maple, I think alot of people feel (myself included) that it is very good sounding in terms of a base for equipment. Mapleshade and Walker Audio have done quite a bit of comparative work with the maple vs. other woods and they found it be at or near the top of the pile. I agree, though, cherry looks very nice (although Tony's maple sure looks good, too!!) :) -Jim |
Thanks for the update, Jim. I've got two 24"x18"X3" maple blocks coming from Tony; cutting boards for gifts, @ $101 ea., shipped. I'm tempted to go for cherry for my rack, a wood I'm partial to; Tony offers it at the same price as maple. Are there strong reasons to prefer maple, which seems to be the more typical choice? On another part of the equation, http://www.jamestowndistributors.com has 3'X3/4" brass rod for > $35 ea., the best I've seen. They're a boatbuilding supply place, with a lot of cool hardware. Their brass acorn nuts come to a point, and might make viable footers, though they do not list 3/4". Cheers, John |
Hey Guys I got a great deal on maple shelves...exact same size at the Mapleshade ones. 4 of them for <$250, shipped!. I haven't received them yet...hope to by the end of next week. They're from a place called Tony's Wood Shop: http://www.tonyswoodshop.com/ Tony is a super nice guy and I have no doubt they will turn out great. Now onto the hardware. Samson hardware goes for just over $600, before shipping. I'll likely just go for McMaster 3/4" 6' rods for $300 for 4 of them (pre shipping) plus all the various brass bits. Will save a few bucks over the Maplesahade hardware. Anyway, just an FYI for those looking to build one of these racks. -Jim |
People To cut a threaded rod is not that hard.How do you think the contractors do it when they cut hundreds of lenghts of 3/8 rods to hung the ducts on ceilings in the buildings.Measure the rod from the end down to 48 inch mark with black marker,run a nut through and passed the mark,use a hack saw with fine metal blade or small grinder,please use eye protection.Once cut remove the nut from the cut side to retool the threads.Sometimes a small file is needed if your cut is sloppy. For drilling holes on wood shelves,here is what I did.I used a drill press that has a round work table,I made a double fence out of 1x2x16 wood strip,two pices joint together to form a 90 degree corner.Then I secured on the drill press table in the desired distance from the drill point ,mine was I think 2 inches,I think.Every time you drill the shelves your make sure they contact the 90 fence.You can't go wrong assuming the shelving is cut accurate at the store,Home Depot. George |
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions! Shersta: Elegant solution, having a machine shop point the rods. Could you still thread things on at that end? Don't suppose it matters too much. Jdubs: My noodling around the web found only 3' and 6' rods. If you need 4' and go with steel of a reasonable diameter, it might not be prohibitive to get 6 footers cut down. I expect a good shop could re-tap the threads at the cut end, too. How many shelves do you need? You might be able to put 4 on 3' rods, depending on shelf and gear thickness. The design is so open, I doubt cooling would be an issue. Dbld: I'd just picked up a scrap of sheetmetal to make a template as in Richard's helpful instructions, but I like your full size template idea too. Question: why should it matter if the holes in the template match the size of the pilot on the bit? Mightn't one drill the hole to match exactly a center punch, mark all the holes on the piece with the punch, and then drill it? Seeps like there would be next to no slop that way. I might well be interested in the cherry, depending on timing, etc. I'm now in St. Louis, but I'm through PA a lot, for work and family. Feel free to email, jdoris@artsci.wustl.edu John |
John and others - I did one of these [two actually] and am about to start a much more elaborate [and expensive] rack project. I used solid 2" and 4" cherry shelves though [the 4" are just two 2" glued together] and simple 5/8 steel rod because this size rod would easily thread into the salamander spikes you can get from just about anywhere - like Audio Adviser. Cherry is also a super hard wood like maple...just try to sand it and you'll see. As for drilling the holes, I used a forstner bit too because it is nice, clean, and more precise. But I made a full sized drilling jig from 1/4" hardboard and simply drilled small holes, like about 1/8", to mark the four hole centers the forstner pilot was easily aligned with this hole. This assured that all the rods would line up perfectly even if the cherry boards where slightly different in size. I also built steel pieces that would be placed just under two shelves [the bottom and the top ones] that carried mounts for attaching cables. The cables would then very tightly "X" on the two sides and the back for stiffening triangulation. John, are you in PA I am in W. Chester, PA, and might have some extra cherry boards when I complete my new rack whenever that will be. |
If you have a drillpress, great, but you really don't need one. I built my flexitable with a only a circular saw and a hand drill(used a clamped, metal level to serve as a guide for the saw to insure straight cuts). Make sure to start all measurements from the same corner (left front, say). That way if your shelves aren't exactly the same dimensions, it won't matter. Also, the holes you'll be drilling will be slightly larger in diameter than the support rods; thus your holes don't need to be perfectly perpendicular. As far as far as footer go, I brought my threaded rods to a machine shop and had them grind the ends down to a point. Cheap and looks good. You can protect your floor with expensive disks or do what I do--use quarters (cost? twenty-five cents, and free if I steal from girlfriend's change jar). This is a fun project. The combo of wood (especially the maple you're considering), industrial size hardware, and shiny electronics is quite fetching (imo). My modest, oak-trimmed, mdf shelved flexitable garners a lot of compliments. |
The aluminum (or whatever material) jig doesn't have to be square - simply consistent - though being square certainly helps align to the corners of your workpiece. Mark the jig as to what the top outside corner should always "key" to -- in other words, if you use a square jig, and don't mark it for consistency in alignment, there will always be some margin of "play" in the way the workpiece is marked/drilled since you may inadvertently rotate the jig during workpiece marking. I used a 3" x 3" piece of aluminum with a thickness of around .0625" (1/16") , and cut a hole to size that matched (and some) the diameter at the tip of the forstner pilot arbor. This ensures that ALL the holes will line up consistently, since the pilot on a forstner extends perhaps a quarter inch below the actual cutting head. Be sure to mark (with tape et al) which side of your workpiece is your top, and then mark the edges (front or back). I tend to pick the best finish on any given workpiece, and then go from there. Since no piece of material is ever truly square in all dimensions, it helps to start at one corner, and "jig" around the workpiece clockwise so that each shelf is consistently marked and drilled. As long as everything is marked and well-planned, you'll have no problems. -Richard |
Measure twice and cut once! When I drilled my shelves (on a drill press which I know to be mandatory - it is nearly impossible to cut a perfectly perpendicular hole with a hand drill), I made a small jig out of thin aluminum, which guaranteed the position of the hole - just align it to the corner, and go. I think the most important aspect of cutting the hole is to use the right speed, and the right bit. As I said, I went 1/16" above the rod size to get a little play, and used a brand new forstner bit (most will state the correct speed for the material you are cutting), which gave me perfect cuts - no splinters or tearing of the grain at all. My problem with most commercial products, and hence the impetus for building my own, was the near ubiquitous use of tubular material which rings like a bell. Who the hell wants to fill a rack with lead or sand? Commercially available racks in the price range we're looking (or building) at, are built to a price point, and are filled with compromise(s). There are many exceptions, but we begin to start talking serious cash. I also think it quite nice to be able to customize your dimensions, your choice of materials and finish, and to make the rack a customized unit that suits your needs. I also find great joy in building things myself - pride of workmanship, if you will. My rack seriously outperforms (sonically) everything I've heard under the $1000 mark (and of course I've not heard everything), but as a bang for the buck DIY project, I don't think you'll ever look back. |