ddafoeThank You for the follow up. What other gear including cabling rounds out your system? Happy Listening!
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@ddafoe: Did you step up from a Pass Labs 150.8 ?
I went from a SimAudio 600i to the Pass 250.8 + XP10 stack. The 600i was amazing and much better value than the Pass pair. After trying a couple preamps I ended up with the 250.8 + 740P combo and felt that was another level up from the 600i. Since the 740P lists for the price of the 600i, I suppose that should not be a surprise... I'm tempted to try a SimAudio 860a with the 740P to see how that compares with the 250.8, but they don't come up used very often. @nyev, if you are in Canada, keep an eye out for good deals on SimAudio separates or the 700i integrated. I've been extremely taken back by the sound quality and over-all quality of the two SimAudio pieces I've had in my system... |
Diablo's phono and dac are excellent, I just prefer tube phono stage, generally speaking. I also make recordings to tape from vinyl and like to go directly from phono to tape deck and not having to use tape outs, even Gryphon's, if I can help it.
Flemming Rasmussen, Gryphon chief designer, used to voice his equipment with master tape dubs of which he has a big collection. He knows how things should sound, oh yes he does.
I talked to couple of big time hard core tube audiophiles and they said that if they ever considered, as unlikely as it might be, transistor amp, that would almost certainly be Gryphon. This is a very high praise. |
Thanks inna I thought the story a bit odd too. They said that amps have a standard behaviour when clipping and when they were driving the Diablo to the max for testing purposes in the shop the Diablo suddenly “fell off a cliff” unlike typical amps when they clip. So they sent back for analysis and supposedly it is fine and working as intended.
Any Diablo 300 owners out there want to try independently reproducing this experiment? Probably not, I’m guessing...
I was also leaning towards the brand new route.
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If it were my call I would get brand new Diablo 300. However, I would probably choose to have separate tube phono stage and I would have no need for dac. But even if I needed both Gryphon phono and dac I would pay more and get new piece. At this price level I would not try to save a few thousand dollars.
As a side note, I don't understand what happened with that particular Gryphon unit at the shop, that story is unclear. |
DDafoe inna and cytocycle, thank you as well, that was very descriptive and helpful!
My dealer offered me a 6 month old demo Gryphon including both DAC and phono modules, for $19K (converted from my Canadian price to USD). The unit is currently back at Gryphon for analysis as they thought the unit had a fault. Apparently in the shop they were limit testing (sounds fun...) and they found the Gryphon clips very suddenly and dramatically compared with most amps when maxed out. After the shop thought something was wrong, Gryphon say they have tested the unit and found nothing wrong with it.
So for $19K USD I could purchase this demo unit with modules, or for $17K I could have a brand new unit without modules. Seems the new unit price is $1K higher than list price in the US for me.
Thoughts? I will not proceed without auditioning this and other options, but the Diablo is firmly at the top of my list.
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ddafoeThank You for the Bryston 4B3 and Pass Labs 250.8 comparison.
Did you step up from a Pass Labs 150.8 ?
Happy Listening!
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Keep in mind the MC462 makes 450watts into 2,4,8ohm, the Gryphon can output 950watts into 2ohm so with your more 4ohm ish speaker the Gryphon might have more control plus their Class A/AB biasing delivers tons of current. Because in my experience in the past with Wilson and Rockports which drop to 1.73 ohm for certain sections of the bass region that Mcintosh solid state doesn't sound as dynamic till you start looking at 601 monoblocks. I am considering the Gryphon also since they are one of the manufactures that is used when voicing my Rockport Speakers, plus adding Phono and/or Dac saves the cost of 2 expensive cable per device and less potential for ground hums and issues if you are into vinyl. I am considering Devialet 220 Expert Pro, 440 Expert Pro or higher also. I can't speak on the latest pass or Bryston. Look forward to hearing your results and next steps. |
Gryphon is not dark sounding. It is deep dense articulate and powerful. No brightness and low distortion. This is top solid state level, and it should last for decades. I don't even consider any other transistor amps, makes little sense to me. I would probably be after older Gryphon separates, though, but very expensive and hard to find. Gryphon separates is an answer to audiophile's prayer.
Some Pass are very good, so what ? Bryston is not high end. |
I just want to hear some Gryphon gear. Looks cool, is very expensive apparently, and is considered ultra high end.
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Thanks for sharing your experience, and you comparison of the Bryston vs Pass.
Will be be very interesting to see how the Gryphon Diablo 300 compares....
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I have a Pass 250.8 + SimAudio 740P preamp combo which I really like. About a year ago I changed speakers (switched from Magico to Spendor) and the 250.8 was chosen as it mated very well with the Magicos (e.g. lots of power and a little warm sounding). Over the last summer the heat the 250.8 puts out into my listening room (with no AC) was getting me down so I thought about swapping amps since the Spendor D9s I now own are easy to drive and not as lean sounding as the Magicos. I figured I could maybe save some $$$ and not have to deal with the excessive heat the big Pass puts out. The Bryston 4B3 was my first choice to try as it is very well reviewed, bulletproof, and I'm a previous Bryston owner of multiple pieces and a big fan.
I purchased a used 4B3 and dropped it into my home system after disconnecting the 250.8. It was everything I read about, great bass, fast, smooth, very revealing. Compared to the Pass I found it had a more forward and detailed sound, but it was still smooth and not bright. Just a different perspective. With my D9s I think it even had better bass then the 250.8. Side to side soundstage was about the same.
Where I found the 250.8 beat it to my ears and tastes was in the front to back soundstage and the feeling that the instruments and people were more real or 3D like in my listening room. The 4B3 sounded like an amazing 2D ultra detailed recording, the 250.8 sounded like the real thing because of the extra space and depth in and around all of the sounds. I ended up keeping the 250.8; in my system its output with good recordings just sound so much like live music (maybe a handful of rows back though).
Good luck with your search...
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Thanks for the input! I will have a Mac tube pre-amp on hand for my demo as well as a Bryston Pre-amp, so those will be good to mix and match.
To be honest I’m not sure where I fit on the spectrum of engaging/detailed vs warm and non-fatiguing. Although to me being able to listen to music hours on end might mean that the music isn’t quite as engaging. If it’s a little more fatiguing I don’t mind if the music is more engaging....
For this reason the Gryphon may be the perfect balance between the 4B3 and Mac for me. However I’ve now seen a couple posters have mentioned that the Gryphon can be a tad “dark” sounding. While warmth is okay, to me dark is not a positive quality as it means a consistently lesser tonal response as the frequency goes from low to high.
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Wow! It's certainly nice that you're in a position to consider such a wonderful selection of amps.
IMO, the Bryston and the McIntosh are at opposite sides of the spectrum. I agree with ajpk1971 that the Bryston is more dry sounding yet has a somewhat "in your face" presentation. The new McIntosh MC462 provides a sound that is on the warmer side, typical of McIntosh products, nevertheless full and robust. I understand the new model provides better bass than the outgoing 452. There's very little listener fatigue with the Mac. You can listen to it seemingly endlessly and the result is you tend to hear and be involved in the music rather than the amp itself. Personally, I'd put the Pass Labs unit in the bottom half of your list. Diablo 300 is an outstanding audiophile integrated. I would place it between the Bryston and Mac in terms of sound reproduction but it seems to give you the best of both worlds. My personal preference is to stay with separates in your price range but it's really hard to fault the Diablo's quality sound regardless. It's great that you have the ability to demo all of these, hopefully at the same time. Make sure to try different preamps with each of the amps. You'd be amazed how much difference that can make to the sound. With the Bryston and the Pass Labs, might I suggest you try a tube preamp? This could "tame" these units into something quite wonderous. Given your speakers, the Mac and Diablo should be really good matches. For your 803 D2s, the Bryston or Pass Labs with a tube pre could also be magical. Depends on your sonic preference though and how they work in your particular room. I certainly envy your choices.
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I have a Bryston 4B3 and McIntosh 452.
I spent 90% of my listening time using the 452.
Soundstage, imaging, musicality I think is
better with the 452. Bryston sounds somewhat dry.
Still a very good amp. |
