Gryphon is not dark sounding. It is deep dense articulate and powerful. No brightness and low distortion. This is top solid state level, and it should last for decades. I don't even consider any other transistor amps, makes little sense to me. I would probably be after older Gryphon separates, though, but very expensive and hard to find. Gryphon separates is an answer to audiophile's prayer.
Some Pass are very good, so what ? Bryston is not high end. |
Diablo's phono and dac are excellent, I just prefer tube phono stage, generally speaking. I also make recordings to tape from vinyl and like to go directly from phono to tape deck and not having to use tape outs, even Gryphon's, if I can help it.
Flemming Rasmussen, Gryphon chief designer, used to voice his equipment with master tape dubs of which he has a big collection. He knows how things should sound, oh yes he does.
I talked to couple of big time hard core tube audiophiles and they said that if they ever considered, as unlikely as it might be, transistor amp, that would almost certainly be Gryphon. This is a very high praise. |
If it were my call I would get brand new Diablo 300. However, I would probably choose to have separate tube phono stage and I would have no need for dac. But even if I needed both Gryphon phono and dac I would pay more and get new piece. At this price level I would not try to save a few thousand dollars.
As a side note, I don't understand what happened with that particular Gryphon unit at the shop, that story is unclear. |
A word of caution. Gryphon Diablo 300 will outclass any B&W speakers. It is not a bad thing but you will not hear the Gryphon's full potential with those speakers. |
Yes, I read that review too. It is sometimes unbelievable what a great amp can do with good but not great speakers. A number of people upgrade speakers prematurely instead of upgrading amps. Upgrade path is often not a simple thing except for turntable and reel to reel deck. |
Diablo needs at least 100 hours of burn-in time in addition to 80 I think factory hours. Make sure of that. Also, Gryphon matches well with Gryphon and better Purist Audio cables and cords, I suspect it does well with some others too but don't know it. Start by plugging the Gryphon in straight into the wall if possible, no conditioner, it's got one in it. Still it might sound better with some conditioners in certain situations, this part is tricky. Look forward to your report and final decision. |
Diablo 300 is becoming quite popular because it represents great audiophile value. Sure, Gryphon separates would be much better, but excuse me, that kind of money is beyond the reach of 99% especially if you want top of the line. But even 'entry level ' separates are way too much for most. Used is possible but hard to find with North American voltage, and even with European not so easy, and is still expensive unless 25-30 years old. |
I would ask for all Gryphon Reference or Purist Audio Dominus cables and power cord, all burnt in for at least 300 hours. Cables can really ruin everything.
No surprise with Bryston, they are in fact pro amp company. Some in the know say that it is more difficult to make first rate active pre-amp than power amp. Maybe even Gryphon people would agree, I am not sure. Diablo has passive pre-amp section. |
No, Flemming is an industrial designer and painter. He worked with great engineers to make these pieces happen.
I think, that's my guess, that perhaps in addition to what you said about speakers, the Diablo was not really burned in. It needs 200 hours minimum initial burning in. I don't know how well Transparent Reference cables work with Gryphon and B&W speakers, and maybe they were not burnt in properly either. That's the problem with some dealers. |
Gryphon makes their own speakers and probably doesn't support anyone. Look up their discontinued Atlantis on ebay, as an example. |
I think, you definitely need another audition. One thing about Gryphon you certainly got right. It has a great grip on speakers and you feel the amp's presence. In a manner of speaking, it is quite authoritarian. |
nyev, you have a great perception of the sound. This amp/speakers interaction is a complicated thing. I myself like speakers that are slightly loose and give me a somewhat 'bluesy' sound. But this kind of speakers need an amp with a firm grip not to get out of control. It should be a right balance, and it can be a matter of preference. It appears that this Gryphon/B&W pair does not strike the right balance, though it does certain things very well. That's why you are so ambivalent. Just don't buy if you are not sure.
What I also know about Flemming, I watched a number of interviews with him, is that he likes large scale music. This influenced his designs.
I understand what you call "flow" of music. Again, it's interesting and not simple. For example, and that's not about amps or speakers, it is about the sources, both analog in this case. My Nottingham turntable overall sounds much better than Nakamichi cassette deck. But, music has more coherence and flow when played on tape, tape recorded off vinyl played on the same Nottingham. I also once noticed the disruption of the flow with a wrong interconnect cables.
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Theoretically, there might be a way - to bring the Gryphon home for audition or to take your speakers to the dealer's room. In reality, maybe not. This is a quite a big decision alright.
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I see. This ever-present power and will of the Diablo that go thru everything create this complicated impression.
They say it will drive almost any speakers. Maybe so but this doesn't mean it will match well with them all.
If you can afford buying and then selling if you have too, that's good, it gives you more space and time to make the final decision.
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You see, I said you'd forget Bryston after hearing Gryphon. Gryphon is true high end.
Yes, Flemming has left but I think he will keep an eye on what's going on. Regarding service, I suspect that if they pull out of North America they will service units sold here, you will just have to ship it to Denmark. Their model of communications with clients sounds a little arrogant and potentially inconvenient to me. But the risk is small, I would say. |
Most true high end companies are small, creations of one or two people, and many of them are not young. So there is always some risk. During its 30+ years of history Gryphon sold a number of pieces, especially in Europe and Asia, there should be places to service them for many years to come. Yes, some parts are custom or semi-custom.
For my future set up in addition to Gryphon I am considering Lamm, VAC and Allnic. I think, they are even worse in this respect, Lamm and VAC are basically one man operations and Vladimir of Lamm uses some very rare tubes and maybe something else too that you cannot easily get.
Shipping to Denmark would be very expensive but easy, you wouldn't have to even leave home, DHL or FedEX would pick it up. I would be more concerned about potential difficulties of communicating with Gryphon than about shipping. |
Yes, changing times, but I too use my Nakamichi 682ZX cassette deck almost daily and have it aligned and tuned every three-four years,
I once read here on Audiogon, a long time ago, a man was asking about the best way to ship big Gryphon stereo amp to Denmark. That was the time when Gryphon was not present in North America but they agreed to service the unit. I am not sure if he was the original owner or not, but you will be.
nyev, where did you see that interview with the current Gryphon CEO ? I would like to take a look too. |
By the way, I don't know about D'Agostino but Luxman would sound very different from Gryphon, Accuphase too. |
nyev, appreciate it. I have just watched it.
Yeah...
The man does not sound like either audiophile and music lover or high class. I also thought that he had no clue of where to go, no leadership perceived, but that may not be bad in this case. His reference to Flemming's health was inappropriate. On the positive side, as I suspected, Flemming will actually stay as a chief designer and consultant at least for some time, and that the new CEO would unlikely do anything completely wrong or they will throw him out.
Gryphon certainly has been growing in North America, but they don't make too many units and I hope they will keep it that way.
Also, though currently any new Gryphon is out of my reach, I don't want to see affordable Gryphon.
I would not have any problem for myself getting Gryphon, especially new from authorized dealer. |
Keep us informed of your experience with the Diablo, I think many are interested. Whatever else it might be, Gryphon is a very distinct and very high class voice. It also demonstrates what transistor equipment is capable of, even hard core tube purists respect it. |
dguitar, I hear you. But we are talking about transistor amps so I won't go there. What preamp do you use with your VAC ? Phono stage ? Oh yes, and what speakers ? |
But yes, though there is never a guarantee, if you want as much piece of mind as possible long term, I think companies like FM Acoustics, Nagra and Accuphase will give you that, especially if you are an original owner. I don't know how good their service is, they just shouldn't disappear in the foreseeable future or radically change course. They would not be my first choice, certainly not if buying new, but that's me, there are other approaches. |
Gryphon does. I once talked to their distributor, inquiring about possible 220 to 110 volts conversion. The lady said they would not work on any not North America voltage units and that I would have to ship it to Denmark. She also said they would not install optional phono in not 110 volts units. I was just thinking, hypothetically, of maybe buying used unit from Europe or Asia at some point. Not only Diablo 300, older integrateds and separates as well. Gryphon separates is a dream unless I decide to go all tube. Perhaps in steps, first Gryphon integrated with tube phono, then Gryphon separates with tube phono and then all tube. But each of these steps would already be excellent by itself. |
By all accounts, not from my personal experience, current Gryphon's phono stage module is absolutely best compared to any other solid state integrated. At the very least, it is a very very good phono stage.
Sure, great separate tube or transistor phono will outdo it, I would guess for two or three times the cost plus interconnects and power cord.
And.. if you decide to add that phono module in ten years it may no longer be available.
So..? |
Yeah, interesting. My guess is that Diablo 300 will win in all cases except maybe where for some reason you want active preamp, Diablo's preamp section is passive.
I myself would not compare Diablo 300 to used Pass separates, I would compare it to used Lamm hybrid separates. |
If your funds are good you might consider getting $2500 phono as well. You may not need it now but who knows about the future ? And also, if you ever decide to sell the Diablo this will add value in many cases. With both phono and dac this will be a complete machine. |
Bass resonance must be present if recorded, just as body and resonance of other instruments in other frequencies. It should not be bloated unless, again, that's how it was recorded.
Yeah, as I like to think, the biggest audiophile mistake is not to spend enough, and second biggest one is to spend too much. You just have to define it in each case.
You mentioned possible great turntable in the future. Some will say that there are great $5k turntables while others will say that there is nothing great under $50k. Gryphon phono should be adequate for $5k table /arm plus up to $2k cartridge set up. But if you go higher, yes, no choice but have separate phono. |
I know virtually nothing about digital, I did hear something about Aurender and PS Audio streamers, something good, I just don't remember what exactly I heard. I mean heard from serious audiophiles.
As far as turntables go, $12k for table/arm plus cartridge would be an excellent set up, high level. Whether you choose warmer sounding, say, Nottingham Analogue or Pear Audio turntables or colder more neutral sounding, say, SME or Kuzma or Simon Yorke turntables, everything should be matched as much as possible, not just electrically and mechanically but also musically. Gryphon's onboard phono could be a good starting point but you would want to go higher or both higher and with tubes. I read somewhere that Gryphon's own separate phono is great but very expensive.
Of course, Gryphon expects the use of a computer as a source but not only, they are well aware that many audiophiles keep playing cds. So with both phono and dac onboard you just need sources, speakers and a few cables, the Diablo will take care of the rest. Oh yes, and the wall current. |
If lucky less, if not so lucky more, but I would say that $20k integrated with dac and phono and even without them would require at least $2k power cord. Gryphon people themselves consider power cord an important element. I would try three brands - Gryphon, Purist Audio and Stage III. Conditioner, any conditioner, would be very tricky or not needed at all. In any case, great power cord comes first. |
