A very good recording with nice snare dynamics from start to finish is "She's So Cold" by The Rolling Stones on their Emotional Rescue album ( a very good recording overall as well). |
I've carefully read through this thread and still don't know which performance and recording (other than that it's vinyl) of Bolero the OP is listening to. I have a few recordings of Bolero and might be able to do a comparison if I have the one in question (but so far unmentioned). |
Davide256: I have a sota sapphire, with a Grado Reference Series, Sonota cartridge |
While I look up the recording of Bolero to which I was listening, can you recommend a good IC cable. I am currently using balanced/xlr, but am not wedded to that choice. |
I looked at the album: it is CBS masterworks. Leonard Bernstein conducting French National Orchestra. Catalogue number MX35860. That is all the info I can glean from the cover. |
The problem could be anywhere including the recording. |
Of course, if tube gear, for good sound, always make sure tubes are in good working condition, and if vinyl/lp, any deficiencies in proper setup of the cart and/or mismatches between components in teh phono system could have ill effects on dynamics, etc.
IS teh stylus known to be in good condition as well?
So many things can go wrong easily just over teh course of time with tubes and vinyl in particular.
Of course, step 1 is still to know the recording and what to expect out of it as many above have alluded to. |
I do have that recording on a "Great Performances" reissue. I have
several LPs from the CBS Great Performances series and have always been
satisfied with the sound quality and mastering. I just played it, paying particular
attention to overall instrumental balance and tone and clarity of the snare drum
in particular. On this pressing I found the the snare drum to sound exemplary for
classical concert snare--clean, full-bodied, dry (i.e., no discernible shell ringing),
with good body and tonal balance. It primarily emanates from the right channel.
I've played drums for 50 years and have played a myriad of snare drums
including a few professional orchestral snares, and the sound on this recording
is right on the money, and easy to hear on my pressing on my system.
Since the snare sound primarily comes from one channel, you may want to check
the L-R balance to make sure your channels are balanced. Also, good
reproduction of snare drum relies on phase coherence. I listen through
Magneplanar 1.7s, and while they're pretty inexpensive in this crowd, they *are*
phase-coherent, devoid of cabinet noise and resonances, and have excellent
transient response throughout the frequency range. Since your speakers combine
a dynamic woofer for the fundamentals with dipole panels for the overtones of a
snare drum, it could be speaker location relative to the room that is causing
some sort of null in your listening position.
You already mentioned you got some improvement with some cable changes.
Might I suggest you try some Transparent cabling? Their little black boxes seem
to help keep phase relationships and tonal balance where it belongs. I've heard
Transparent cabling in some delicately picky high end setups, always with good
results. I'm talking Wilson Alexandria XL/Alexia/Sasha spkrs, D'Agostino/Audio
Research/VTL electronics, and SME/DPS+Lyra turntable setups. |
Elegal - did you listen to this track with your other speakers and find the snare muffled by comparison with the MLs, or is this just with regard to the MLs alone and not in comparison to other speakers? This is a critical question that has been asked before but as far as I can see has not been answered. |
SOIX: I did not listen to this record on any other speakers. |
My supposition is that your new speakers are giving you a new level of clarity and resolution. Now you are hearing things in the chain from recording to sound waves not heard before. I too have a Sota Sapphire. Reference my system page. Try this experiment if you are so inclined: Get some pieces of rubber or dense foam rubber and wedge them between the wood chassis and sub-chassis thereby fixing the suspended sub-chassis in place. You can place the rubber or foam in the gap around the bottom of the turntable. Check that the platter remains level and you will need to readjust your speed. (Make sure the suspension is not bottomed or topped out.) What is happening here is that you are fixing the distance between the motor pulley and platter spindle. Now the speed of the platter will be more consistent. Isolation of the platter will not be quite as good now; but this is a temporary set-up. Play Bolero now and see what you think. |
This kind of reminds me of when one of the UASF bands was on tour & I attended the concert. Twice I had the opportunity. The last time I was seated a bit farther away in an old refurbushed multilevel theater. Some of the HF I expected to be a bit brighter... but realized that SPL follows the inverse square law. Double the distance & SPL drops by 75%.
Looking at the charts in previous posts shows not much output over 700Hz. Not sure if that's entirely the case... |
Allowing for the possibility that Elegal is particularly sensitive to and keyed into the sound of the snare, I fail to see how changing the interconnect cable so that the sound he is hearing from the snare ("terrible/muffled") can be transformed to acceptable without creating a slew of problems for the sound of other instruments; IOW, other instruments sounding in the frequency range of the snare which sounded acceptable previously would then be too bright and forward. Power cords and vibration control would clearly be a help across the board; but still....... That is the problem with focusing on the sound of one instrument (or one type of music for that matter) when choosing equipment or tweaking a system, and leads to the typical audiophile chase which "solves" one problem and creates others. Until the OP reports back on how other recordings of Bolero sounded on his system, my money is still on unrealistic expectations for the sound of an ORCHESTRAL snare as the problem. |
Interesting thread! Lots of good info here guys.
My bet is also on the recording. Should be easy though, just throw something else on with cymbals... |
The recording is fine. Snare drum is clear and distinct, neither overdone nor recessed |
I think Geoff Kait is onto something. Is a speaker hooked up out of phase, possibly? Decay trails, intelligibility and sounds with a fine sheen are always compromised when phase/polarity reversals are present. |
elegal I have the Sota Sapphire and Grado reference; with my lack of phono preamp loading options I hear the same comparing the grado to high output moving coil... theres more presence and high frequency articulation with even a simple Denon high output MC. The MM fans will shout out that you can fix this if you have a section to adjust the loading. |
Give the panels a shower. |
Longshot here, but...
High humidity can adversely affect the performance of an electrostat. In my experience there's an optimum bias setting for the voltage applied to the panel, and that optimum voltage may change with the ambient humidity. If the bias setting is user-adjustable, that might be something to look at. The bias voltage settings for my SoundLabs decreased significantly when I moved from my barely sea-level home way down yonder in New Orleans to my mile-high-and-dry home in Idaho.
Also, if I recall correctly, the SL-3 combines a line-source-approximating panel with a point-source woofer. Such systems can deliver the best of both worlds, but face a unique challenge: The sound pressure level falls off more gradually with distance from the panel than from the woofer. This can result in the system sounding unbalanced if the combination of listening distance and room acoustics are significantly different from what the designer had in mind. So perhaps even moreso than with conventional speakers, experimentation with speaker and listener positioning is called for... but the good news is, if this is part of what's going on, experimentation is likely to yield significant benefits.
Obviously these are not snare-specific suggestions, and are presented with the usual disclaimers: Imo, ime, ymmv, etc.
Duke
dealer/manufacturer |
****Obviously these are not snare-specific suggestions, (and are presented with the usual disclaimers: Imo, ime, ymmv, etc.)****
Exactly; and it remains the key question still unanswered by the OP: why is it only the snare that seems to be affected? How do other instruments sound? More info would be very useful for helping to solve the problem. |
