Blues, Jazz, Rock Violinists?

One of the best violinists, both electric and acoustic in the 80's was Michael Urbaniak. Still have about 10 of his vinyl LPs. Billy Bang's style was highly influenced by Urbaniak's sound.

I'm not into that "uber" quality thing. All I can say is that LP's are better than early CD's.

The worlds greatest musicians have recorded stuff that belongs in the dumpster. You have to be very specific and only get the music you know about, as opposed to just getting music by that particular artist. This doesn't apply to the set by Tina Brooks, but you get my drift.

Enjoy the music.

Orpheus10:
Don't wanna beat a dead horse, but this is an example of what I was talking about earlier. It's a review from the All Music Jazz Guide, speaking of a german group that could not play, 'inventing' something, they could play, and calling it euro-Jazz? I was surprised at how blunt the reviewer was.
check it out.

http://www.allmusic.com/album/live-in-berlin-71-r500891

Orpheus10:

Have you ever ordered any CDs from mosaic? Talk about the sound quality.
Thanks

jazz genre - Svend Asmussen - Grapelli-like in style. Check out his "Still Fiddling" release.

I have "The complete Blue Note Recordings of The Tina Brooks Quintets" on Mosaic LP's. This is "World Music" with Regina Carter. She can come out of many different bags, although this is the first time I saw her play world music. I liked the composition of the music and the instruments; but the musicians seemed to be on tranquilizers. I could live without it in my collection. She's got a long way to go to catch "Ray Nance", but she's got time.

I have "Grazing In The Grass" and a lot more by Masekela; I also like Manhattan Transfer, although some time I can't tell them from New York Voices which is another group I like.

It's nice to know we're on the same page.

Orpheus10:

Floating my boat today

Grazing in the Grass : The best of Hugh Masekela
This is a great review of his music.
(I always liked masekela, I played flugel horn in concert band.)

The very best of Grappelli & Menuhin - nice easy listening, does not reach out and grab.

The Blue Danube - Willi Boskovsky and VPO, I remember where I heard this for the first time. On pbs radio while driving thru louisiana on I-20. Wrote down the info and got it at Tower records in Austin. Great singing.

Manhattan Transfer - Swing, one of their best. When they are good, they are very good. they have made a few clunkers.

Gym Time. Later.

Orpheus10:

These videos can become habit forming very quickly. I really enjoyed the ones you sent. I have held an erroneous opinion of the youtube music.

Tina Brooks, I didn't realize he was so well known. I thought I had him all to my self. The one you sent was great, and I listened to the 'true blue' cuts also. I also saw one by Freddie Redd. Another on my favorites.

Regina Carter:
I will have to revisit my CDs of her. Here is my take on the ones on youtube:

Artistya - Very nice to listen to. I would call this world music. I think the video helps the audio part. In other words, it was great to watch and listen, not so sure I would like it as much on audio only. i don't think it would have held my attention.

2002 at Bern - Overall sounded rather grappelli-ish. which is not a bad thing. Gyspy / eastern european folk, came to my mind. I thought she was just a little too laid back.

Mood Indigo - more bluesy. this is missing from the first two numbers. Her solos made me wonder if she has mastered the violin. But, she did bend a few notes. very good.

It don't mean a thing (newport all stars 2003) - now this is better, hot club jazz, she breaks out, takes charge, YES she has mastered her instrument. the sax helps with the overall effect. I will buy this if I can find it.

All of the ones I watched were very very good. It don't mean a thing, was more to my liking.

To Chazro: ACHTUNG!! ACHTUNG!! These are my opinions!!!

Here is Tina Brooks from the Masaic LP set.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1yyGYZoa34

Back to violin, here's Regina Carter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF4ifBXx-Z8&feature=related

"There you go again, speaking as if your OPINIONS are actually FACTS!"

There is nothing that says an opinion cannot also be factual. And how does one speak as if what they say is not factual? Should I used the 'IMO' every other word? I assume MOST people know that this is a public forum for opinion. I didn't think I had to spell it out.

"(as Jazz is the antithesis of this type of mindset). "

Is this one of YOUR FACTS??

I didn't say Ponty was not a jazz player because I didn't like the 'type' of jazz he played. I said he didn't play Jazz.
Examples:
When wynton marsalis plays mozart and hummel classical pieces for trumpet, he does not call it baroque jazz, or european Jazz,or classical Jazz, it's just classical. He is playing in their house.
When Ray charles sings country, he does not call it r&b country or soul country. It's just country. (And he does it better than anyone in nashville) He is in their house. you play by their rules. Same when he does gospel. no prefixes no qualifiers no howevers.

When ponty plays his music, whatever it is, it could be great, I don't have any of it so I can't say, but it ain't Jazz.

But I do like and admire your fervor for music, that goes for Orpheus10 also. More like you are needed.

BTW, I see that classical music is under attack also. Some talentless folks in NYC, aptly named. bang on a can, are inventing new mo better classical music. stay tuned.

Obviously Grappelli is the biggest omission from your list. Another current artist I don't think has been mentioned, interestingly, is Mark O'Conner.

I went to school briefly with Jean Luc Ponty's daughters; one of whom, Clara, is a fine pianist. She has a few albums out of what most would probably describe as "New Age" music.

Orpheus10
I like almost all of your youtube posts.

I am not into video as such. I have a dvd of "a great day in harlem' and a few blue note dvds, but I have never played them, because I don't have a high quality play back video system. I will correct that soon.

What floats my boat?

Today's playlist
Mariah Carey - Greatest Hits
Ellington and Hodges - back to back / side to side
Armstrong and Fitzgerald - best of
Tina Brooks - true blue
Herbie Hancock - Takin' off
andre Rieu - forever vienna
Carmen McRae - sings monk
Betty Carter - droppin' things
George Benson - tenderly (playing now)

all this and more floats my boat.
The johnny hodges / ellington stuff is truly great.
Peace

Rok2id is not the jazz lover he pretends to be. If he was, he would have at least commented, and possibly applauded some of the gems I presented on "Youtube".

If you notice, he's put everything down, and hasn't put up one single example of what "floats his boat"; that's because I don't think he's got one.

There you go again, speaking as if your OPINIONS are actually FACTS! Hard for me to fathom how someone that claims to love Jazz can be so tunnel-visioned and narrow-minded (as Jazz is the antithesis of this type of mindset). OK, so according to you, Ponty isn't a Jazz musician because you don't like the TYPE of Jazz he's played. Plz don't even attempt to say Fusion (or avant-garde/free for that matter) isn't Jazz as it really is an ignorant statement. If you hate these forms of Jazz, fine, lots of people do. But to say it isn't Jazz just 'cause you say so amounts to nothing more than a hissy fit! So if YOU don't like Big Band I guess that isn't Jazz either, or vocalese, or latin, or fill-in-the-blank. Jazz is a very small word for a very large music genre. McLaughlin, Corea, Zawinul, Davis, jeez, the list goes on and on, I suppose none of THESE guys are Jazz musicians either!?

Here's the thing, I don't like Ponty's work and I hate avant/free Jazz, but it seems silly to me to deny their existence. You say you're 'defending culture', but in reality, you're attacking it.

Here's a violinist that's been active for decades that I'd bet isn't too well-know around here: Alfredo De La Fe.

Duanegoosen
BTW, do you agree of disagree with the idea that culture has to be defended. Otherwise we will have no culture.
I don't think a person can get together with a few friends and start a group, make some sounds, declared the sounds their First Symphony in A minor and then have it show up in the record stores right next to Bach and Mozart.

That's how I see the Jazz question. It's getting to be a dumping ground. People don't like what you are doing, short on talent, call it Jazz. just my two cents.

Duanegoosen:

"Words like Jazz, Free Jazz, Avant Garde and Fusion don't really have much descriptive value and often get used by the weak minded to reinforce preconceptions and prejudices."

Whew!! Talk about dodging a bullet! That lets me off the hook, because I didn't coin any of those terms. I only use them as put downs. In fact, we may agree on this issue. There is Jazz and there is music that is not Jazz. It's as simple as that. No prefixes or qualifiers needed or required. But your statement does call into question the mental condition, prejudices, and precoceptions of the writers and reviewers in the American music industry.

Mingus died in 1979? Thanks for the info. I don't do research when I respond to posts. My point was I could not believe DB would say such a silly thing, BUT, the magazine business is just that , a BUSINESS. I am sure they wish they had better artists and music to review and talk about, but they have to appeal to the people that buy the mag. Hence, Ponty and Zappa and a lot of other non-Jazz types get coverage. I BET :), the writers at DB long for the heyday of Blue Note and the high cabliber Jazz of that era.
Enjoyed your post.
Peace

Minor house cleaning detour:
Validity or cultural impact is not determined by what got printed in Downbeat. That said I was surprised to find that during the early and mid 70's the rag was regularly putting Zappa on a pedestal, (Bongo Fury was an exception)... turns out they were right about his stature as a composer and i was too dumb to know it.
Mingus Died in 79'... and a poorly informed highly opinionated A'goner trekkie loses a bet, whoo-hoo.
Words like Jazz, Free Jazz, Avant Garde and Fusion don't really have much descriptive value and often get used by the weak minded to reinforce preconceptions and prejudices. No way am i gonna' play, this is jazz... this isn't jazz, but it's obvious that some of us haven't really listened to Ponty's Sunday Walk (1967) or some of his other early releases.

"Rok2id, who said Jean Luc Ponty was a jazz great?"

No one did. I just stated that he was not a Jazz great. Given the direction and subject of the thread, confusion on this point would have been understandable.
Peace.

Rok2id, who said Jean Luc Ponty was a jazz great?

"Even though I am primarily a jazz fan Jean Luc cannot be categorized as a jazz violinist"

Which is my point exactly. I am sure he is great, just not a Jazz great.

If you don't like Jean Luc Ponty that's fine. To each his own. All JLP's recordings have not been great. But some of his recordings and live performances of those recordings have been nothing short of amazing. If you haven't witnessed it, you might not be able to relate to what I'm saying. Even though I am primarily a jazz fan Jean Luc cannot be categorized as a jazz violinist. He definitely plays a fusion of many musical sytles and my favorite work from him is from past years. I've seem him around the country many times and his shows have always been electrifying and ultimately "great." He is a virutoso composer and musician. Not even the greatest musicians and artist were great all the time on every recording.

Ric Sanders of Fairport Convention and the Ric Sanders Group, really a jazz violinist at heart but has a style that defies all categorization. Really the finest
violinist/composer of anyone on this list.

"even Downbeat had sense enough to recognize that this stuff had compositional weight on par w/ Charles Mingus"

After reading this statement in your post, this episode came to mind. BTW, I bet Mingus was long dead when DB wrote that nonsense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5l_l-Obs4w

Some Ponty stuff did hit me as cheez whiz... haven't kept up with what he's doing. He's obviously a big talent and he's recorded things that can't rationally be described as pop or fusion. The MPS releases are generally pretty solid and his work on the 1970 World Pacific/Liberty release (King Kong) demonstrates what he can do w/ FZ material, (even Downbeat had sense enough to recognize that this stuff had compositional weight on par w/ Charles Mingus or Oliver Nelson).

And yes you should read recommendations to avoid hearing avant garde noise makers or that f word music, (whatever that is)... if you're not careful you might learn something ... be sure to keep those training wheels on!

Jean-Luc Ponty has had a long, long career and I cannot say that I have followed every path he has gone down. What I can say is that at one point he was an excellent jazz violinist. Jean-Luc Ponty Stephane Grappelli is proof. (Note that the link is to a CD that contains contains bonus material. The first five tracks comprise the original album.) There's also a live recording that he did with George Duke that is quite good.

This is one of my favorite jazz tunes "Delilah"; she's the one Sampson fell for. This version features Ray Nance on violin and Ahmed Abdul Malik on bass, it's boss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkFSM9Frx3w

This is Chris Church that I mentioned:
http://youtu.be/kwoySbXEtGo

I will try to find something from Mahavishnu years with Goodman or/and Ponty. Unfortunately, most Mahavishnu videos that I saw so far were not the best performances.

I like Michael Gray of Pearl Django. If you don't like Grapelli, he might be more to your taste.

I usually like Stuff Smith for jazz.

If you are in a more adventurous mood, check out Min Ben-Ari; also known as the 'hip-hop violinist'

I agree with some of Inna's sentiments,

Jean Luc makes me think of 'POP' not jazz

Inna, while I agree with your general statement; it's not good enough to be against something, and not be "for" something else.

Why don't you post a "Youtube" that best illustrates the violinist who "floats your boat".

If you read the synopsis of Ponty's career in the All Music Guide to Jazz, you will see that he has not been a serious Jazz player. He seems to be experimenting with a lot of stuff. When the words FUSION and Electric Violin appear, they should be seen as red flags. Last seen playing with some west african group. Stuff Smith was not mentioned on the thread yet. Seems to be very good, but the recordings might not be of the best quality. 20's - mid-60's

I highly recommend the All Music Guide to Jazz. Used out dated ones are just as good as new, since all of the good stuff will be there. The most useful part for me is, they tell you what type of jazz the artist played. Helps me avoid those fusion,free,avant-garde,world, noise makers.

Inna, I was always/still am a J.M. fan...oops. This thread is about violinists. I enjoy Regina Carter very much.

Clear example of how tastes differ. I thought that Jean-Luc was just making noise, senseless music. I know him quite well, his best performances were with John McLaughlin and Mahavishnu Orchestra, just like everyone else's who played with John. He had this special gift to bring the best out of every player. But these days he plays junk too, like Ponty and many others.

You are a very astute observer, Rok2id.

Here are two good representative examples of Jean-Luc Ponty live. The creativity of his writing, playing, and arranging are special as usual. For me there is no one better playing violin:

"No Absolute Time"

"Mirage"

Once things get going, the OP is soon forgotten anyway. :)

Not sure about forum etiquette...my apologies if reapeatedly saying "Thanks to all" is getting a little tedious. Philojet - agree with you and hope others benefit from the input on this thread. Orpheus - read with interest your multi-part "jazz tutorial". Personally, I'll take Bang's Castenada connection as a bit of a caution. Onhwy61 - I know little about Duke but he is an iconic figure. I will definitely check out your recommendation. And maybe that will serve as an intro to broader exploration of his work. Duane - thanks for the You Tube ideas. I like running my netbook through a DAC and watching the video while listening to the music.

Ray Nance.

I was going to mention Staphane Grappelli but I see he has been mentioned.

I just wanted to mention it is nice to see music posts because that is what it is all about.

thanks everyone

If you are interested in jazz violin, then Duke Ellington's Jazz Violin Session is a must listen. One of Ellington's best later period efforts.

A little youtube searching should give you a crack at some of these:

Zbigniew Seifert (releases on Mood and MPS)
Dave Arbus (1st two East of Eden records)
Faith Fraioli (Flying Island)
Darryl Way (the 3 Wolf records are great)
Hollis Brown (Ozone Quartet)
Ric Sanders (Soft Machine , Second Vision)
Jeff Gauthier (has a lot on Cryptogramophone)
Didier Lockwood (Lockwood / Vander / Top is my favorite)
Godfrey Salmon / Raymond Vincent (Esperanto/Danse Macabre)
Jenny Scheinman (lots to pick from, the Tzadik stuff is good)

Vassar Clements

This is the first time I heard anyone mention "Billy Bang". He comes out of a lot of different bags. The first time I heard him he was into "Carlos Casteneda", who was into the sorcery of Mexican Indians, and wrote about "shamanism" and different states of mind. Billy Bang was using his writings for inspiration. It was all very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co1D8AvUwtw&feature=related

Here is a more recent Billy Bang.

In a thread about violinists I feel compelled to emphasize Jean-Luc Ponty, a master musician. (Grapelli is considered to be, but I haven't really heard that much, and did not care for what I heard) I love JLP's music and artistry. I've attended his concerts from LA to Detroit and seem him at least 8 times over the decades. JLP is a master violinist, writer, producer, and arranger; a genius, in my opinion.

Mark O'Connor spans the musical universe from classical to country. Classically trained, IIRC and IMO, the most talented of the popular (read non-classical) violin player out there. More in the country fiddle genre, but very talented, is Alison Krauss' instrumental work.

Thanks again to everyone who took time to reply. Lots of suggestions to sample. Getting new ideas about music to check out is the best thing about A'gon.

Orpheus - very much enjoyed the Ponty clip on You Tube. I have an LP by him but that video is a little more organic or souful or jazzful or something than what I'd associateed him with previously.

Billy Bang is a new name to me (as are a few others)...more things to check out.

Personal preference leans towards the blues side of the equation. Hope others will check out Charlie Burnham and James Blood Ulmer (e.g., Red House).

It's interesting to see all the Grappelli lovers here. I'm sure that this is my own issue, but....

I absolutely LOVE Django, but I have to listen "around" Grappelli to enjoy the music. There's something about his playing that grates on me and detracts from Django's beauty.

Like I said, this is a reflection on me, not Grappelli, but it does drive me nuts.

Marty

PS Ghost, World Party always played live with a fiddler (at least on the ocassions that I saw them). I'd have to go back and listen to the records, but I'm pretty sure that the fiddle parts are there.

Billy Bang. I recently listened to his Vietnam - The Aftermath CD, after having not listened to it for many years, and it was a good listen.

Thanks all.
Marty - Seems like our musical tastes might be similar or at least overlap. Appreciate your advice. Very much a Karl/World Party fan. Yet, not 100% sure on the connection to violin. I'll look at Wikipedia.

Do know the Gatemouth name. I will look for violin related stuff.

Jobson is who I was thinking of with the UK reference. Did not realize he did time w/Roxy.

Rnm4 - THANK YOU. In my head I was thinking there is someone with a name similar to Django Reinhardt (sp?) but on violin. (well you'd have to be in my head to imagine any possible similarity in the names). Don't think they were really contemporaries but Stephane is who I couldn't recall. Good reminder.

Bdgregory - will check out Cross and Urbaniak. Always admired the musicianship of the various King Crimson lineups (though the name is kind of creepy).

FWIW...check out"The Blindman's Blues Forum" (see "the Best Blues Rock Violinist" thread). If it works, a link is here...
http://blindman.15.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=36258&st=0&#entry493707

Found Charles Burnham from this site. Played w/James "Blood" Ulmer (and JBU opens a whole new path of exploration for me).

Thanks again to all.

Jerry Goodman, played with John McLaughlin.
Chris Church, plays with Jesse Cook.