show business kidz talking philosophy..
Eric - yes! also caught Richard at Benaroya opening 4 Emmylou.....like you I discovered at Shoot out the Lights, have been mesmerized since....
even my ancient Labrador has got soul...
or in the words of Neil
” even Richard Nixon has got soul “ |
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Orpheus, do I understand you correctly that you said you cannot tell the difference between CDs and LPs after you have recorded them onto tape and listen to them via your real to reel recorder? If I am correct, shouldn’t this be an indication that your tape system, however wonderful it may be, has the dominant coloration among your three modes of play back?
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It’s not only primitive people who are afraid or superstitious of cameras and photos. Have you seen peoples’ reactions to the Photos in the Freezer Tweak?
Music soothes the savage breast. Most things coming out of people’s speakers ain’t musical so nothin happens. Most of the time it’s two dimensional, thin, bland, compressed, no top end, no bottom end, congealed, like paper mache.
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Primitive people never wanted their pictures taken because when they saw a picture of their smiling faces, smiling back at them, they believed you had captured their soul.
When I hear my favorite artists at their best when they were young, I know I have captured their souls; that's because my rig brings them into the listening room.
There is so much talk of "live"; I have gone to concerts with audio not half as good as my listening room.
"Ascribing properties to nonexistent entities is curious business"?
I don't think so; if I have duplicated an event in my room, that is so real I can tell the age of the person when it was recorded, and I was there; I can perceive that person in my room, from a time in the past when they were at the height of their creative power.
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One can of course use metaphorical expressions but ascribing properties to not existent entity is curious business. One is free to describe Pegasus as one like with whatever kind of wings but we know that Pegasus does not exist in, uh, reality. The soul has in this sense the same ''status'' as Pegasus. I assume the analogy with our ''heart'' which seems to be the place where our love coms from? The old Greek used what I call ''metal analogy'' such that our Lew can be described as ''honest as gold'' and our chakster ''strong like iron''. This analogy imply constant properties so even if Lew seduced the wife of his best friend he will still be ''honest like gold'' while chakster even with broken legs would be able to dance and jump. |
Yeah tomic, Richard Thompson is one of the greats! Writes, sings, and plays guitar like no one else. I didn't catch up with him until his Shoot Out The Light album with Linda, but that album so knocked me out I got all his previous albums, and those of Fairport Convention when he was a member. He's one of those artists whose every album is, if not a must buy, at least a should buy. Speaking of trying not to cry, Richard is a member of the gang paying tribute to Levon Helm at the 2012 Americana Awards Ceremony, performing "The Weight". Other participants are also amongst my favorite artists: Bonnie Raitt, Emmylou Harris, Buddy Miller, John Hiatt, Larry Campbell, Jim Lauderdale, Sam Bush, and Booker T. |
but yes, a great thread..
Richard Vandersteen is fond of saying.. a good stereo is also a time machine....
enjoy |
caught the legendary Richard Thompson tonight in a small venue ( The Belly Up, Solana Beach, CA )
I can assure you no lack of SOUL in that man...and no judging his age IF one dared to close eyes for even a moment...magical..
Play Beeswing....loud
try not to cry..
freaking awesome.... |
Yes,a very good thread.I know exactly what you mean.It's being transported to the event and feeling,tasting,smelling,and practically living/reliving it.Magical.
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@orpheus10 +1 A Thoughtful Thread. Thank you. |
David, Part of this lies in one's ability to perceive, and you most certainly perceived where I was coming from.
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The way I'm using the word "soul", is only remotely connected to "soul-music", but to what is projected in the best recordings and playback. Since I treated the room, people I saw live, seem to be in the room; I can even tell the age they were when the recording was made by the sound of their voices. Aretha Franklin is 2 years younger than me, which means she was 21 when I saw her at a club in Detroit, and she sounds 21 on this double LP, which is a combination of what she recorded in 64 and 65. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R1NBEJL-QsI find those lyrics comical for a pretty 21 year old girl who had yet to gain weight; but that's what I'm talking about when speaking of living "soul"; it's like the artist has been re-created and is in your listening room. |
Beyond the sound of things, and into the soul of things. I would have stopped there. Beautifully said. Many, many roads. We can [perhaps foolishly] dissect differences but it is difficult to argue or question one's being moved. However he or she arrives there, into their very personal 'soul of things.' |
I remember drop-outs, but that's all; I haven't experienced one in ages. Maybe it's something different in the newer tape formulation.
I know this is going to sound like heresy, but I swear it's not easy telling CD's from LP's on playback. When you think of just how much the sound of a CD changes once it has been recorded on a 2 track reel; then you'll understand how much it has metamorphosized into an LP on playback.
All this talk about the reel has reminded me; "It's time to buy some more tape."
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Man I just love open reel. There is still the problem with drop-outs, head cleaning etc. but man does it sound sweet, especially half track as mentioned by tomic601. That Revox machine is awesome. I have to admit that CD's are so damned convenient. I use a CEC belt drive transport to get the best sound that I can. This allows me convenience and in my estimation, that soulful experience mentioned. Not necessarily as soulful as tape mind you, but still good sound.
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@orpheus10 gain and frequency response....I had a 4 track Dokorder that made rock and roll LP’s come alive...
good on ya for maintaining the RtR
enjoy it in good health !!!!!!
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My reel is the ultimate, it puts me in a trance, and I'm listening to records I recorded.
Here again, it might be about experience, the same as in TT's and LP's; I always change rollers in a timely fashion, clean heads and demagnetize; the sound is sparkling and powerful.
Why LP's sound better on 2 track playback is a mystery to me?
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i went pretty deeply down this exploratory path a few years ago, bought a bunch of tape, a Revox high speed half track, two WADIA A2D, etc....no board, two very good microphone, etc.
Guess I should also have bought a lathe.....that might have spelled divorce...
plenty of soul either way....
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Every medium has it’s own shortcomings. While tape has provided us with the bulk of our music recordings, that medium’s shortcomings are made crystal clear (no pun intended ;-) when compared to a direct-to-disk LP. Doug Sax made "safety copy" tape recordings from the same mixing desk console feed simultaneously with his d-2-d LP’s for his Sheffield Labs label releases, and the contrast is startling. As is the sound of those discs! I’ve never heard a tape recording with the immediacy, presence, transparency, and dynamics as a d-2-d LP played on a superior table/arm/cartridge. But recording direct-to-disk is completely impractical for general use; an entire LP side has to be performed live, start to finish. A musician plays a bum note? A singer goes flat, or misphrases? Too bad. No "punching in", no overdubs, no remixing, no nuthin’! |
Lewm, I have been into R2R since the 70's, and loved every minute. I have a Technics RS 1500 2 track that's reliable and easy to work on. It's highly recommended and not too expensive.
I've thought of buying one used, then have the seller send it to be refurbished, discuss with those people how much would it take to make it like new, and go from there.
An LP recorded on a 2 track reel will sound even better on playback. If you have ever wanted R2R, now is the time; that's because blank tape is available.
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lewm6,686 posts01-27-2019 10:44amBut Geoff, we know that there IS something wrong with CDs, as well as with the playback machines that go with them. Haven’t the issues with RBCD been hashed over ad infinitum? (If that’s what you refer to when you use the term "CD".) High rez CDs of various types are certainly better than RBCD, if and only if the hi-rez technology was used during the recording process, which in itself suggests that the problems with RBCD that we can easily identify using science may also apply during the listening experience. >>>>What I’ve been preaching the past few days on some other related threads is that problems with CD player constrain the CD from sounding like it should. Since I am one of the first to hear what CDs sound like when scattered laser light - including the invisible infrared portion which comprises most of it - is prevented from getting into the photodetector you’ll have to take my word for it. Obviously that’s not the only problem with CD players. And I’m taking about ANY digital player, SACD, DVD, BLU RAY and any variant of REDBOOK CD. CD players cannot cope very well with out of round CDs, scattered laser light, static electrical charge, magnetic fields, vibration caused by the transport mechanism or seismic vibration. I’m sure I’m forgetting others. |
But Geoff, we know that there IS something wrong with CDs, as well as with the playback machines that go with them. Haven't the issues with RBCD been hashed over ad infinitum? (If that's what you refer to when you use the term "CD".) High rez CDs of various types are certainly better than RBCD, if and only if the hi-rez technology was used during the recording process, which in itself suggests that the problems with RBCD that we can easily identify using science may also apply during the listening experience.
I used to listen to CDs if we were having a party or if I wanted to sit and read with music in the background. Now I don't even do that. LPs all the way. R2R tape is also superb, if I could afford the entry price and wanted to fiddle with it. |
"Spin The Black Circle" as Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam sang! |
Digitally remastered cassettes are an interesting medium. While not the last word in air and warmth they are a lot more analog-sounding than most CDs. Which i submit is evidence there’s something wrong with the CD playback machine, not with the CD per se.
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Consider this. The digital signal is a series of reference points selected from the analog waveform. A magnetic tape is the alignment of magnetic particles by the record head. Slices, particles, are they really that different?
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Digital is a series of sliced pieces of the original analog sound flow. Analog on tape is a natural flow. Digital tries to mime that analog flow. Original analog on tape is the best.
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Geoffkait, what I spoke of, possibly has to do with one's ability to perceive, as well as the best rigs ability to deliver all that is on the LP.
A Hi-Res download is from the Master-Tape, and should be close to identical. What I spoke of was almost ethereal; the sound was transferred on the Hi-Res, but not the emotional impact of the music; the music was stripped of it's emotional soul during the transfer.
With the right rig, in addition to the audio, there is an emotional component that is received in the sub-conscious which triggers all the memories, and experiences surrounding the music that is generated by the LP, that's not generated by the Hi-Res.
Intensity of listening is required to experience this.
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Kudos should go to tape, the medium the recording was made on. Tape is a natural medium. It breathes. Vinyl is simply the neutral repository for the taped information.howver, as I opined recently imho there’s nothing really wrong with CDs per second. The problem in terms of their sound quality arises when they are played using CDCplayers that are still fraught with problems. Like background scattered laser light getting into the not too swift photodetector.
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