Better Records White Hot Stampers: Now the Story Can Be Told!
Does it still have the old tagger on it? I don't think you should play it
Spinal Tap - Don't Touch!! - YouTube
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Carol seems to have changed a bit since that picture on the Internet, but I do not doubt it was her personally. Thanks millercarbon. The record was packaged well. Probably the safest I have gotten them so far. Sturdy record-sized box, then decent bubble wrap, then sandwiched between two cardboards sized like the record cover. After that, the actual record in Diskeeper sleeve and cover in shrinkwrap and in its own sleeve. Stickers "Keep away from heat" and "Fragile" on the outside. I pulled the record out for brief inspection (with the magnifying glass), but by maybe one third to avoid any additional contamination before playing. As someone earlier mentioned, if it had been cleaned, it had been cleaned really well. Otherwise, looks mint. Nothing visible at all. That is all for today. I am not playing it until I get to where we will compare it to its brethern. And you thought I was joking? |
Unfortunate thing with this kind of approach is that it means nothing to anybody except to the one doing it. There was a thread Talk but not walk some time ago. It was a place to say and claim anything. From Kim Jong Un to geometry of wings on the plane to amplifiers and to anything else you could imagine. Michael Green claimed that amplifiers sound significantly better without the cover. The premise was that people only talk, but never try so whatever they say is worthless. I pulled an older NAD C-350 out of the box and took the cover off. Nothing. It was all the same. I did it for a while, but nothing changed. I reported that result and got blasted for doing it. Apparently, doing it was not enough. It just showed how I did not know what I was doing despite me taking the cover off as mentioned in the thread. All of a sudden, taking the cover off was called "barely scratching the surface". I was to cut some plastic ties inside the amplifier so orchestra will spread on the stage and similar claims. I did not do it, my room could barely fit that orchestra in their snugly positions, as destroying a perfectly functioning amplifier just to potentially read it was not enough did not appeal to me. There could have been more and more that would be needed to prove how taking the cover off an amplifier improves the sound. In short, by doing the experiment and reporting results, I was told my findings were worthless. Granted, it was not a single, much less double, blind study but if the only way to discern the difference was to spend hours under sterile condition it was not worth the effort. That is when I realized who talks and who walks. Don’t even start me on piano keys and pressure in the room. |
Going back in order: jetter, I thought of Tekton and Raven, but realized that my approach may be better. With Tekton and Raven, everything would sound like White Hot Stamper, if not even better. It would defeat the purpose of the test. bluemoodriver, It will not be double blind test although it may be dimmed lights test. Just too lazy to take it to some lab level and my friend is sane enough for me to expect him to refuse to get up and change multiple records more than once every 20 minutes. Maybe we could try to teach the dog how to do it, but that dog is not the brightest one out there so no double blind study. I believe it will be applicable result anyways. The point of listening to White Hot Stamper, or anything else, is to actually listen to it in real life, not under the test conditions. So, I think, it would be fine if some bias makes it sound better. The end result is still "better" and is what might be expected under the regular conditions. Not that I can claim to be free of bias, but in this I am as unbiased as one can get. And as experienced with that particular album as anyone could be. I am doing it for curiosity, not to steer me into buying or not buying White Hot Stampers in the future. Of course, it is not excluded, but I barely ever listen to records. If White Hot Stamper is really that great, it may be worth paying someone to find it for you. As long as your hourly income is higher than of that person finding it for you. Time is money they say. Even then, one has to decide where the cutoff for "too expensive" is. thecarpathian, In my hopeful experiment, that is why we will have three different records to compare with White Hot Stamper. They may all be clunkers, or they may all be great, pressed on different continents and possibly in different years. That would shed the light on the technology itself and how much should be reasonably expected from the format. If the only way someone will be satisfied with the sound of a record is by buying White Hot Stampers at $100-600 a pop (and click), we are approaching rarity of offerings and price of reel-to-reel indulgence. I could see a person buying a few favorite records like that for birthday. |
Glupson - do make sure those are double blind listening sessions, won’t you? Nobody wants to pay a $250 premium for placebo effects. I’m sure a $10 premium is all that is needed to trigger the “I paid more for that copy and I am told by the retailer that it sounds better and I think they are right and I can hear better sounds” But if a double blind produces and unambiguous vote for the WHS, then we have all learned some valuable things, including: - sifting through multiple pressings to find the best one or two is worthwhile. - there is a fee to pay for that legitimate service if someone is to do it for you. - when you buy vinyl other than through such a value-added route, you don’t know what quality you are getting, and most importantly: - the more of these services there are, the less likely it is you will find gems at normal prices. - as the cream is lifted out for premium resale, the quality of what remain will as an average do down. |
"Very thorough." I omitted details about the rest of the system(s) as it should have no impact on record making circles. The plan is to do that comparison with a friend of mine (he is the owner of Pioneer and Ortofon 2M Red) at his place. millercarbon is invited, if he can get to the Mid-Atlantic area by mid-week. Of course, if Carol manages to deliver the record by Tuesday. In fact, anyone in good spirit can join. Space is limited and there is Coton de Tulear always fighting for the sweet spot. EDIT: Oooops, I forgot about Coronavirus. Well, not to be the one to walk away from invitation, we can figure something out. Some measures. |
"I can't pass up a terrific name like Zoot Sims!" This is when I first heard Zoot play that little beauty... The Muppet Show - Sax and Violence - YouTube |
Talking about White Hot Stampers, buy this album. Mono, yes ... but it is Zoot Sims at his finest recorded during the Golden Age of MONO. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzJEqi4Te1k&ab_channel=AllThatJazzDonKaart I can’t speak for the reissues or the CD, but I’ve had the original in the collection for many years. It is pressed on that heavy vinyl that was common in the early 50s. It is one of the best-sounding recordings in the collection. The originals in excellent condition are pricy on eBay ... but as you know, price isn’t everything. Here's Zoot Sims live. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSMMKEjyLcE&ab_channel=GazellVideos Frank |
"Do you know the specifics of the turntable you are going to demo the album on? It may depend on Carol’s interaction (I can learn, you see) with millercarbon and when the record will arrive. It should be Pioneer PLX-1000 with Ortofon 2M Red, Soundsmith Otello, Ortofon Concorde as old as the record, and Technics EPC 207 cartridges. It may also be Technics SL-Q2 turntable with all of those but Ortofon 2M Red. Now, when I think of it, I can recreate the time the record came out. Turntable, cartridge, and the recorded material can all be the same age. The way artists could have listened to it. Records to compare White Hot Stamper with will be three of the identical title. One is German "period pressing" (meaning "from the time it came out first") in visually near mint condition, one is, I am almost certain, U.S.A. pressing from unknown era, and the third one I will check when I get there. It is likely a U.S.A. copy. My interest/goal is to compare White Hot Stamper with regular copies and not to find how good it is on the level of the Universe. That is what I understand to be the benefit of the White Hot Stamper. The best you can get out of the bunch. For that, I should not need a million-dollar system as all copies will be played on exactly the same equipment. Sure, on something more sophisticated, they will sound better, but the difference should still be about the same. |
tuzarupa, "Perhaps the other residents of our universe would use a light beam to decode it?" If you dig through those links I have provided earlier in the thread, records actually came with a stylus to play them with. I think it said the stylus was inside the spacecraft while the record was on the outside. There is a picture of instructions provided with the record so Martians know how to use it. One problem with most modern turntables could be that the record is at 16 2/3 rpm and most turntables are 33 and 45. |
millercarbon, "When they want to know something they ask me directly. Seriously, can you tell us one area of strength where you can give high quality information without some political excrement or insults to others? While virtue signaling. Is there anything you have to say other than, "Look at me! Look what a great person I am"? |
All - My comment about giving a twenty to a homeless person was not intended to interject a political or social comment into the thread. It is just my preferred act as opposed to buying something of unknown quality. So you give it all away. Great. More virtue signaling. I take ownership of my choice. You did it so guess what? You own it. Goes without saying. When you feel the need to say it, guess what? Virtue signaling! I gladly spend a few Benjamin’s (and more) on audio gear or media that has credibility or an viable assurance behind it. That’s a put down. While virtue signaling. Is there anything you have to say other than, "Look at me! Look what a great person I am"? All you’ve done is confirm you are just like all the others worried how other people see them, while throwing their Benjamin’s (and more!) as you say out the window instead of actually helping all the people you want so badly for us to believe you care about. Stop. Just stop. Please. |
All - My comment about giving a twenty to a homeless person was not intended to interject a political or social comment into the thread. It is just my preferred act as opposed to buying something of unknown quality. I take ownership of my choice. I gladly spend a few Benjamin's (and more) on audio gear or media that has credibility or an viable assurance behind it. Going back and forth with vendors of unsatisfactory equipment or media is tiring and usually costly; one way or the other. @glupson - a gold plated copper disc would likely stress many modern TT's. Perhaps the other residents of our universe would use a light beam to decode it? |
I had fully expected the hot stamper to be a marketing trick and corresponded with Tom in advance ensuring that if I was unhappy I could return it per his guarantee Thanks for clarifying with "correspond". If you say "talked" with Tom the midwits here cannot figure out that could mean email. There's a small aberrant group here who live to mock, and we can only dream of the day they back off to the level of tomfoolery. Hang around longer you will notice a pattern. They never contribute anything of value. They insult and deride constantly. They travel around in packs. It may take a while but if you search around you will find threads that run for pages with nothing but these same sad losers bantering back and forth. Because of this an awful lot of people avoid posting at all. When they want to know something they ask me directly. Happens all the time. They get the same great high quality information, only without the distasteful experience of having to wade through these miscreants excrement to find it. |
"Not unless it comes with Norah Jones sitting and listening to it with me. I would pay $600 for that." FAQs About Booking Norah Jones | AAE Music Hire Norah Jones for a Corporate Event or Performance Booking. (celebritytalent.net) |
Love when political ideology is injected into the conversation. sadly the homeless situation is mostly attributed to our gutting of the mental healthcare’s system in the 1980’s. Never mind who was POTUS then. Most of the Homeless but not all have mental health conditions that put them where they are. What is really sad is that since this started there have been many opportunities for both political parties to tackle this situation, and they throw half assed measures into the political wind and the problem still exists. Would a higher minimum wage help? I doubt it. Getting people the mental health care they need and better treatment of our veterans will be a better start. My opinion. Now to the topic of Hot Stamp Records....no way am I paying $300.00 for an album. Not unless it comes with Norah Jones sitting and listening to it with me. I would pay $600 for that. |
tuzarupa, "...on a piece of vinyl that will eventually decay..." A little earlier in the thread, there was a statement that records do not decay (or some other wording of that statement). Allegedly, I mean according to millercarbon, that was the reason for the record being sent into the space in 1977. I linked to some NASA webpages about that and I found them interesting. It was the record. It was not the record you have at home. I do have to thank millercarbon for leading me to check the details about the space record and making me learn something new. Now, if I could only make him learn... ...anything. |
Well MC - as my grandfather said - you can fix dumb but you can't fix stupid. Comment was about spending that kind of money on something of unknown quality. Your response was off the rails. But what else is new. Bit touchy are you? Don't know where you live or care. Don't know who you really are or care. |
Of course sound quality of similar or even identical pressings are all over the map, due to handling and/or manufacturing (mal)practices. No secret there. And of course the more popular the music, the more copies needed to be pressed quickly to meet market demands and the more chance of overused or overheated stampers. And probably also a much higher probability of having been played over and over on extremely crude teenage ’gramophones’. It’s actually a miracle so many copies did survive these guerrilla-like circumstances. But seriously, advertising the ’hot stamper’ sound as ’tubey magic’ for recordings made in the 70’s, when studio’s mostly used solid state equipment? Asking hunderds of dollars for damaged records with consecutive ticking from needle marks, just because they are so called hot stampers? Come on. |
I had fully expected the hot stamper to be a marketing trick and corresponded with Tom in advance ensuring that if I was unhappy I could return it per his guarantee I didn’t return it and that’s why I thanked him NOW.. I did return multiple lps later as they did not meet my requirements nor match their descriptions, in my view. My standards are high and by all means mock but I’m here to contribute. Not get involved in tomfoolery |
"...but perhaps Tom or Carol from Better-Records.com can."Carol is from UPS. I hoped that millercarbon would talk to her about earlier delivery of my record. A few nice words, as usual, maybe a long walk on the beach in the sunset, and, inevitably, an Audiogon post that starts with...I talked to Carol... Carol Tomé - Wikipedia |
