There are really a relatively small number of speakers which even bother to reproduce a legitimate 30 hz signal at any price. This job seems to be left to subwoofers for the most part nowadays. In your price range, there are the Vandersteen 3, 3A and 3A Signature. These are all excellent speakers which will deliver in the deep bass region provided that your amplifier can provide the current. Also would be interested to hear the Gershman RX-20 Avant Garde which I hear is quite small and yet can plumb the depths. Be careful of the recommendations of others, since I have noticed that many people don't have any idea of how a 30hz tone sounds. Ninety percent of the speakers out there don't have it. |
Sorry, I forgot to say that the Gershman is $4400 list, so you would have to consider it used to meet your budget. The Vandersteen 3 is discontinued, but a mint pair is available easily for $1300. The 3A lists for $2595 and the 3A Signature retails for $3495 but is available used for less than $2500. As this is an interesting topic, I would like to know of any other candidates and what others think of the Gershmans as an overall speaker as well as the quality of the bass reproduction. |
There was another thread similar to this not long ago. From that thread the above Vandersteen's came highly recommended and the PSB Stratus Gold i. I tried to hear the PSB's at store about an hour from here last weekend but couldn't find the store. It's a shame more speaker companies don't offer a speaker with good "thump", as you say. |
My budget was $2500 for mains and after looking at many reviews I becan listening. I came down to PSB Goldi, NHT 2.9 and Hales Revelation3. I bought the Hales which I felt was the best deal(considering sound, look and refinement). They take a long break in but will play deep and loud. I agree that a good sub is still important, even on music. I use the Velodyne HGS15. Its turn way down for music and I know its expensive for the last 15 Hertz. I have listened to many $4000 speakers and still think my Hales are the choice for me. Auditioned Revel Performa F30(3700) last weekend and liked them, but still would easily choose Hales(girlfriend thought F30 was ugly!!). Good luck and have fun listening...LR |
NHT has some models with really nice low end - if you don't mind going used, you can find a pair of the 3.3's for <2500, and if you can place them against a rear wall, will get the low end you're looking for. The 2.9's retail for <2500 and also have significant low end. Very neutral speakers. |
As to the mention of the Revel F30 above, I liked the M20 better, it is basically a bookshelf speaker, although it comes with nice stands. I have been impressed with these speakers, I am not sure if they will go as low as you like, but they will surprise you! List $2200. |
What about a nice pair of Paradigm (Studio reference 80's) and a subwoofer on the side. This set up will give you a very reasonable price and much deeper bass that a standalone speaker. |
Here is a suggestion from John Marks, a reviewer for TAS; I was discussing something else with him, but part of the response applies to your question. "Anyway, my guess would be that a pair of Shahinian Super Elves ($850) as standmounted monitors plus a pair of __really good__ powered subwoofers, e.g., Velodyne HGS-10 (list $1,800 each, street price $1,600 each), would overall both sound better than the Linns, and, put much less of a load on your amp. The Obelisks ($2,800) are wonderful, but to get them to sing you need 100 to 200 watts, plus big-time current, plus immense damping factor. But spatially, that combo will be more rewarding than the Elves plus subs, in the right room. If the room is problematic for the Obelisks, the front-firing Elves will be better." http://shahinian.bizland.com/ |
I'd like to second the responses of many of the above. EXCELLENT speakers can be had for under $2500, including thump. Off the top of my head: Acoustic Research, B & W, Coincident, Definitive Technology, Hales, Mission, NHT, Paradigm, PSB, Revel, and Vanderteen. I'm sure there are more out there... |
I'd like to second the responses of many of the above. EXCELLENT speakers can be had for under $2500, including thump. Off the top of my head: Acoustic Research, B & W, Coincident, Definitive Technology, Hales, Mission, NHT, Paradigm, PSB, Revel, and Vanderteen. I'm sure there are more out there... |
It is interesting to see all of the recommendations which include subwoofers. My understanding of the question was that Shabbadoo was looking for full range speakers which deliver bass to 30 hz. Wouldn't this eliminate subwoofers from consideration? Shabba... , please speak up if I have misunderstood the question. |
I have a set of Spendor SP 1/2 on the way, they list for $2500. I hadn't mentioned them before because I am unsure of the bass; not sure they will get down to that 30 range but I have read many great things about the speakers. |
Call Judd at JSG in Binghamton Ny. 607 722 3551 In this price range he offers a speaker that no one can touch. Built like battleships, Hand crafted in the US. Phrophile Speakers. He is a delight to talk to regarding speakers and all audio. His custom built phrophile Line is a definite must. For seriuos audiophiles and the best bass ever!! I am quite sure you would be mailing me & pleased if you did... If you do talk with Judd make sure you menchion me. Bob Ferrario Jr... |
I recently listen to RBH 1044 and 1266 and was very impressed. I don't know if they go all the way to 30hz, but pretty close. For my ears they are more open than B&W or Paradigm of a similar price, and even than the Paradigm Studio Reference 100 which I have heard in the same dealer's show room as the RBH. I hear good review about Coincident. |
Brianmgrarcom The Spendor 1/2 won't get down to 30 hz but I doubt it you'll care if you like the British sound. An excellent performer in this price range with a superb midrange but no thump. Shabbadoo my vote full range is the Vandersteen 3A Sig. used, refinement, musical and good articulate low 30's in room bass. That is compared to the speakers above I am familiar with. NHT's have a different tonal balance you may prefer and have excellent bass (have lived with NHT and Vandersteen). The Paradigm Reference at 2.1K is a good performer in the mid 30hz range, don't believe it really gets much lower but a great value worth checking out. The PSB Goldi I have not heard but has always gotten good press. I can't imagine you not being satisfied with the Vandy 3A Sig. used and would be MY pick based on the above I HAVE heard and your criteria. |
I have a pair of Coincident Super Conquest the bass goes down to 26 hz.Try to find a used pair. |
Thanks guys... ill look at all the reccomendations..... Yeah, I was looking for thump without subs... becasue the only subs i have heard distort the bass somewhat.. a bit too forward.. Its a hard road finding the perfect speaker.. as you all know, but im looking! |
NewformResearch R645. My friend and I recently tried it out with a Rel Storm III and Proceed HPA power amp. On the Bella Flek Hippo song you could hear the bass a tad more but you didn't really feel compelled to go out and spend that extra $1800 to get it. These speakers are outstanding! |
Shabbadoo, hope my recommendation where I mention the Vel HGS15 sub didn't confuse that the Hales Revelation3($2200) plays down to the 30Herts you desire. Hales list the "In-room bandwidth: 23Hz-26kHz" and "Frequency response: 33Hz-26kHz(-3dB)". Robert Deutsch(Stereophile) 2/98 review mentions test tones at 31.5Hz and 25Hz were audible and "For the price,..., the Revelation Three's bass performance was outstanding.". Also I wanted to mention that they very dynamic and work well with high powered amps at high levels. Hope this helps......LR |
The $2500 VMPS Ribbon Monitor-2 will eat everything's lunch...Look long and hard at VMPSaudio.com. Easily over 100 lbs., active woven carbon fiber/phase plugged 12", passive 12" for true actual low 20Hz, then the real magic of dual 7" push pull direct coupled unobstructed ribbons, & dual spiral ribbon tweeters, 1" MDF cabinets, these will make anything else mentioned here sound like the toys they actually are. Even true oak venner. Email me direct for prices. |
IMO, VMPS speakers sound horrible. Their sound demonstrates definitively that esoteric drivers don't guarantee musical sound. The designer should get his hearing checked as should any dealers like Spkrplus. |
i agree with the hales rev 3 best thump in your price range.you will need lot's of power and break in time .something like 200 hours so they start to go.they go low into 4 ohms and less so high current amp is needed i'am not familiar with yours,i use a aragon 8008bb and it gets real hot.the highs are also great very natural and open .best speakers in this catagory. |
The Hales Revelation 3 is an example of a speaker which cannot produce a 30hz tone. It is typical of many speakers today which "pretend" through their specifications that they can but when put to the test, clearly cannot. A 30hz tone is more felt than heard. It should set things vibrating in the room, like the windows and the floors, if reproduced with authority. If you put on the second track of Sarah Mc Lachlan's "Surfacing" CD on a Vandersteen and then the Hales Rev 3, you will hear the difference. Only one of these speakers will produce a true 30hz tone and afterwards you will know which one. Also the Hales has a rather peaky, harsh upper midrange region. Not a bad speaker for the money, but one with at least one obvious flaw and one which, despite advertising claims, is not full range. Of course, I could say the same thing about other speakers recommended here for their low frequency capability like B &W (all speakers except possibly the 801 don't have the ability to reproduce deep bass). Some of the biggest lies in audio are told in the advertising of speakers frequency response capabilities. |
Paragon Acoustics Radiant ($2950), down to 40Hz, and then use the powered subwoofer of your choice (a VERY powerful one if you have a large room). Then you'd have perhaps 15 Hz extension, and more dynamic capability in the bass than any "full range" speaker (with correct placement, the bottom octave extension of the system in the room, is much more fully realized/effieciently loaded with a good powered sub, than with "full range" speaker which must be necessarily placed well away from the wall behind it...if one is to resolve the ambient detail on the recording occuring from the mids on down...even with tubetraps). If you don't believe me, come hear mine in my 4200 cubic foot concrete room. Hearing is believing...I can get 100 dB peaks with music at 11 feet from each speaker with my Krell amp (and SPL meter), and the bass is unbelievably deep, fast, punchy, and perfectly blended in time (and the sub is "not sonically present"). But if you don't have a dedicated and fully treated listening room, I wouldn't bother anyway...maybe that's just me. |
My amp is a perreaux. Have a look at them on http://www.aslgroup.com/audsys/perreaux/perreaux.htm I think they sound just as good as the plinius amps. They have immense power, and cost next to nothing compared to other brands for me, as they are made in new zealand, my home country. If any of you can show me a better looking amp ill be surprised as well! Anyway, the revelation 3 "sounds" to be the best one for the job, but as always ill listen to as many as possible. What do you guys think of B&W?? |
Okay, I couldn't resist responding to Rayhall. I actually heard comments like his before. They came from the local Thiel Dealer when I told him I was considering buying the Hales Rev3. He seemed irritated as if he had lost customers to Hales before. The funny thing about it is he is now a Hales Dealer. Couldn't beat them so he joined up. Rayhall are you a Vandersteen Dealer? Kidding aside, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I will agree with Rayhall that Vandersteen is worth an audition and another great value(3A is in the price limit). Man that 30Hz note the Hales "pretends" to play "feels" good. Happy listening....LR |
Hi Laker, I am not a Vandersteen dealer, but I did audition it and the Hales in pursuit of speakers in this price range. If you A/B both with the right music, which is hard to find, you will hear the difference in the low end. As I said earlier, the Hales is a good speaker particularly when you consider its rock bottom price, but it certainly doesn't deliver close to an ultimate bottom end, nor are the upper mids as smooth as one would like. If you should decide to audition, take along the CD I recommended and be sure to listen with a high current solid state amp like Pass, Krell, Levinson, Plinius etc. After auditioning both speakers, then tell me that that 30hz note on the Hales "feels" good! |
Shabbadoo: From what I've read your Perraux has plenty to drive speakers. A different angle here, you can get new Gold (drop me an e-mail if interested)i's at a very good price and you could used the saved cash in improvements such as a dedicated line and not a bad idea an alternative power cord for your Perraux that might improve your bass response more (noted that you really like this). Hey and maybe kick it up a notch on speaker cables. Regards |
Having listened to the Hales for several hundreds hours, after running the various warble tones, the MATT test, etc. in my living room with them, I have to disagree with Rayhall. The Hales Revelation Three is more than capable of reaching 30hz (and below). He's right about that freq rattling windows (gotta get around to fixing that someday...). It's possible that he's also right about the midrange edginess, but up until now I've attributed it to other factors (of which I have many excuses from which to draw). It is slight (to me) and only shows up on certain material. But, hey, that's just my experience. After auditioning the Vandersteens and the Hales extensively I have to say picking one over the other is a tough choice. |
