Best Preamp and Amp combination, interesting finding!!!

Hi viethluu,

So I agree with you regarding the preamp influence..

I have been involved by high end audio equipment since the beginning of the eigthies...

At that time the worldwide market niche and audiophiles education have established listening audioexperience reports within high end reviews..

We were talking about the value of the sources as priorities...

Pioneer like audioresearch , mark levinson or conrad jonhson have achieved numerous of preamp and their upgrade to improve subjective listening performance.

I remember of night comparison between Marklevinson Ml1, audioreseach  sp 6,sp 6a, sp6c  sp8 and sp 10 vs conrad jonhson premier two premier three ...and so on.

Basically there are complementatity or not...

Audioresearch design oriented with clarity, details and focus  and C0nradjohson appecied for aeration ,sounstage and natural treeble...these philosophie for each company has been maintened since the beginning..

The experience show that a link beetween a transistor amp linked with a tube preamp may be an advantage to combine the matter and weight of the note given by the pre to the bass acuracy of the transistor amp..

As a result it prooves far more difficult to bring into focus a good preamp vs an amp...it is a definite rule well known by the worldwide specialists..

To date ,preamp culture and know how has disepear since the input stage doesnot include anymore high range Phono MC and MM..

Marketing reasons to make savings have oriented the audio company to " simplify'" the design in bypassing preamp since high end is costly...

Vintage preamp unit like Conrad jonhson  Pv 10  a PV 11, Pv12A or premier series are among the best opportunity ta acquire universal preamp including phono or not..

Keep in mind that the hierarchie in hifi system is.

Source   

Preamp 

Amp

Loudspeaker.

Regards

Raymond

A great amp will reproduce, and increase  the horrors of a crappy preamp.

I always thought the same - that the amp is what makes the system sound better. After trying about 10 different preamps, ranging widely in price, I ended up loving my McIntosh C2300. With my speakers, I think it’s the part of the system that will never leave. 

So many logical answers fgit that data without fitting your conclusion. Three pop to mind:
1. Its a very good $1k amp and a so-so $3k amp2. You have impedance matching issues that one preamp solved and the other didn't3. the 1k amp solves a speaker match problem the 3k amp didn't (or vice-versa the 3k amp was less well matched, and apparently, speaker sensitive, which annoys me since it need not be so).
Just sayin'
Interesting finding though.

Honestly I did not pay attention what a preamp can do to the system, until I heard a Backert Rhumba, the sound stage irxploded ,it’s so big, and the whole system sounds amazing.Markr is the owner of that preamp.

If, by preamp, you exclude the DAC, then:

In my experience, for systems with only digital inputs, no preamp beats having a preamp.

More money should be spent on improving the quality of the digital signal going into the DAC and into the DAC itself.

I agree the pre amp is more influential in terms of getting a sweet sound.  In other words it can likely get in the way of the sound more than the amp.  However, Garbage In Garbage Out is real and if the amp is limiting then the pre amp is just going to reveal in better detail the sonic deficiencies of the amp.

I found spending more on the pre amp is more rewarding.  Unfortunately,  just spending more in general is also more rewarding. I have been moving up the line with the manufacturer of my pre amp and am on my 3rd model.  It lists for many multiples of what the op is using.  I could never go back-wards now and I have a bit of an itch for a higher model because I know its just going to be better.

I have no interest in changing my amps.

Both equally important in my experience.

Preamp can really taylor the sound to how you want it, especially if using DSP! But DSP isn't always necessary. I only use it for home theater.
I was a proponent of "all good amps sound the same" until I got an ultra quiet AHB2 - That really changed my mind and i'll never be able to go back now unless it's equally quiet or better.

I just saw a video by Paul McGowan, owner of P.S. Audio.  He ranks the power amp a good bit higher in importance than the preamp.  His reasoning is that than allows for optimizing the amp/speaker interface...if you don't get that right, nothing before that will ever sound right.  

With a reference to an upgrade in resolution and soundstaging to an existing quality system, and assuming the speakers are end game, the amp has proven compatible with the speakers, the pre compatible to the amp, and the source components are commensurate with the upgrade, I would upgrade the preamp over the amplifier. 

Based on some comments that have been posted on other threads I hope my use of commas in that long winded sentence passes muster :-).

The Pass Labs xp30 preamp opened up the world of music for my ears.

 Keeping the signal digital and in the digital domain into a digital power amp where it is converted to analog for your speakers will produce the best possible sound.

Wow, talk about blanket statements. 

In any case, there is really no such thing as a "digital power amp" despite the fact that some manufacturers call them that.  There are some amps that accept a digital signal that has been manipulated (distorted) to control volume but even then they just move the DAC into the box with the amplifier where they do the D to A and amplify it. 

I have enjoyed reading this post that was deemed irrelevant by some.  The debate goes on...

I have much enjoyed the reliable performance and clean open sound of my (now 30+years old) Audible Illusions Modulus II, tubed pre amp. Over the years It has been paired with PSE, Bryston, Adcom, Krell and Ayre, SS power amps and with a VAC Phi 200 and Primaluna Dialogue Premium HP, tubed power amps. Even though it revealed subtle differences between each of the power amps, it paired well and sounded very good with all of them. Of all, my favorite combination was with the VAC - a less than $500 pre amp paired with a $11,000 power amp sounded incredible.......Jim

Thank you OP for contributing with your experiment. Blind testing, spl matching, as well as adding other opinions, particularly non-audiophiles, into the test is the best way to really figure things out.

I was also in the pre amp isn't important camp for years until very recently. I've heard enough good systems that have used integrated amps or even gone direct from the source to the amplifier that made me question their value. I'd love to go back to some of those systems today and slip in a tube pre just to see what might happen.  Aside from volume control and input switching, the pre seems to shape the sound.  Tone, soundstage and imaging are greatly influenced by the pre section. With a single component switch, a system can go from sounding somewhat dull and lifeless to realistic and holographic. They can be well worth the investment.   

can you name names and compare all 4 possible combinations?  

otherwise we have not really learned anything.