Best multi channel amp and processor good for 2 channel listening.

Bwguy and Randyhat, we have the T2 on order out of the first ten coming into the country. 

The guys from Lumin seem to think that the T2 outperforms the A1 which does have the outboard power supply. 

The Lumin engineers are out of broadcast engineering, they have stated that their included new SMPS is really superb and they have worked very hard to make it quiet. 

The T2 is supposed to sound absolutely amazing, we ordered our demo without hearing it. The X1 is absolutely extraordinary if the little T2 sounds even close it will shake up that segment of the market.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Lumin dealers

I own electrostats in a 5.1 configuration.  The only speakers that I liked more were some sonus fabers.  I have a bryston sp2 and i keep an eye out for the right deal on an sp3 with the 4k board.  Its difficult to keep up with hdmi standards which is why for now Im just not.  I think the bryston sounds better than anything else ive heard except for the classe ssp800 which was similar but ive found classe unreliable over the years and they arent upgrading video boards at all.  If I had the budget Id strongly consider the bryston sp4 or the datasat ls10.  

Hi frostdot,

What Sonus Faber do you like? I have an old pair of Grand Piano’s and still love them. I recently heard the Verity’s and fell in love all over again but I am thinking of still keeping the Sonus Faber for my Home Theatre and the Verity Otello’s for 2 channel. 

I am seriously considering the SP3 or SP4 but not sure which one. I am not going beyond 7.1, so what do you think? Maybe the SP3 with 4K? Any suggestions on the 2 channel amp to pair with this?

I’ll add my 2 cents...

The AVM60, in my experience, has been a great piece.  I own a pretty complicated room correction piece for my 2-channel setup, DEQX PreMate, and would not recommend it to anyone that’s not super interested in the minutiae of room correction.  The AVM60, very, very different story.  You load an app on your phone, run it and your done.  The onscreen GUI is really intuitive and very responsive. I’ve had some pre’s that lag when pressing a button, almost making you think the batteries are dying.  Updating the firmware, super easy, you plug an Ethernet cable in the back and navigate to the upgrade screen in the GUI.  All in all, I’ve had a very positive experience with it.  Not complicated, at all, very simplified.

I do not use it for HT bypass, as my 2-channel is entirely separated, so I can’t comment on that.

Maguire, its no secret that most people enchanted by the prospect of purchasing new audio gear tend to over estimate their actual music listening time compared to watching TV. Be honest with yourself. 

There's no shame in enjoying home theater. Mixing different speakers is a disaster, even centers and dipoles, let alone adding expensive high fidelity speakers with a giant display in between them. In the end both formats suffer greatly no matter who sets them up.

Since your situation may be changing why not a highly rated receiver, seven modestly priced identical easy to drive speakers and a small but expensive subwoofer for now. I'm guessing when you hear a comfortable nicely set up vacuum tube audio system your outlook may change. 

The only true audition is at home. Stay out of Magnolia and don't give your phone number out. Good luck and have fun with it.

Hi m-dB,

I am with you up to the tube part.  I contemplated a tube at first but don’t want to deal with the maintenance.  I am confident I can find a ss that can come close to a tube sound. Actually, I am currently researching T&A, Accuphase, Esotéric and my favorite so far Luxman. 

I am not sure what you mean by mixing speakers. I am considering keeping my Sonus Faber for surround and the Verity’s for music.

I have trolled several bankrupt studios and the equipment was auctioned off at low prices. One thing I came away with was the most critical areas of the studio had Bryston for amplification. At the time I was unfamiliar with the brand but after much research I can see they are the way to go if you want perfection of tolerance and longevity and FLAT response. They don't add or take away from the source signal. They are not warm or anything else, just ACCURATE. Some people say to bright, but it is the signal that is bright. I own Anthem equipment only because I could not afford Bryston. Anthem is good don't get me wrong but the studios know more than most on this forum.

I will give another vote to the AVM60. It really is a superior unit with amazing steering logic. The ARC software does a commendable job of “ironing out” all the various speakers (different sizes, types, brands, locations) to create a unified and believable sound field. It is also more than respectable with 2 channel audio. You would likely have to spend as much as the Anthem on a 2 channel audiophile pre to get better results. 

Alkolid your feelings that because a studio uses something therefore it is good is completely inaccurate. Studios use certain products because they are durable and do the job. 

We were a Bryston dealer for years and their amplifiers were good not amazing but good, the CD player was very good for the price and their preamplifiers were okay at best.

In order to make a Bryston setup sound really good you had to use a tube preamplifier to add some body to the sound, we haven't heard their latest gear but  that was our experience at the time, the Luxman gear and Hegel components were far better.

We will agree that the AVM 60 is excellent for the price and we did prefer it to the more expensive Marantz 8802a and the Anthem room correction is superb however the AVM 60 can be bettered by more expensive pre/procs.

We have the Audio Control Maestro M9 and that is the best sounding pre pro we have ever used it is a $8900 40 lb monster pre/pro with individual burr brown dacs per channel and the sound is exquiste you could clearly hear the difference between the AVM 60.

We were running that magnificent pre/pro with an $18k Plinius Odeon one of the finest multi channel amplifiers that has ever been built with all Kef Reference loudspeakers and the sound was remarkable for both music and theater.

We are selling our Odeon because Plinus recently discontinued it as they were not selling that many of them, Plinus is known as a two channel company.

This one multi channel amplifer bested a set of 400watt mono blocks as well from a very respected European company. 

We know just how remarkable a good music and theater system can be. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Maguiar, you asked for opinions so here’s my two cents. When I first read this thread in Jan I didn’t respond because I thought it was so off track. The concept of using two channels of a 7.1 processor/amp as a second zone to run high quality audio speakers seemed poor. I’m glad that people have mentioned that already and now you’re exploring a bypass setup or just selling two speakers and integrating everything or having two totally separate setups. Those seem like much better choices with the last one being the best IMHO.

The thing is you’re really wanting two different things in the way you’re describing the two channel sound you like. I don’t think you get there with just playing the L/R speakers of your HT when you want to listen to music because it will never be as good as the Verity’s can be. Also, if somehow you can make the two L/R channels sound that good, the center will never match them in HT use. You’re probably closer to your goal by just listening to HT in an optimized Verity based 2CH system with a phantom center.

Anyway, to achieve your goal of a great HT with an audio system that meets the quality level you describe while having minimal equipment, I’d suggest the following:

- HT - Keep the SF 5.1 speaker setup and buy an AudioControl AVR8 in the used market. Yes, it’s a HT receiver, but it’s built like separates. It will more than keep up with any of the processor/amp combinations listed above. In HT you’ll get a lot of the key things you need, amp/proc integration, similarity among the 5 speakers, sound quality, video processing, room correction ect. Also, this unit has the better amp (double check this) and none of the Atmos, DTS X capabilities which you don’t need. It should be a great used value.

- Audio - Given what you described I would really suggest a tube based system. Most tube gear intrinsically has the qualities you’re looking for. I’ve heard the Verity Parsifal with a VAC Avatar integrated a few years back and it was sick. For my tastes, very few audio systems can better that sound quality. I don’t think they make the Avatar anymore, but something similar from VAC, VTL/Manley, Audio Research, Audio Note could be a good choice.

If the thought of tubes is a non-starter then find a good dealer and listen to a few solid state units on your speakers in your home to find the one that get’s closest to the sound you want. With solid state you’ve looking for a type of sound that’s usually not the norm. For that reason you need to try a few with your speakers and in your space to see which one is closest. This should be very doable because you haven't spent a lot of money on the HT side.

Hi delancey,

Let me start by thanking you for your response...  

Let me start by saying what a change of heart I’ve had since the beginning of this thread and this came about from all the research and information I have been given “one big step”. I came to the realization that it would be best to separate ht  from music listening and use most of the budget towards music. 

I have narrowed down my home theater processor to the Arcam AV860 or the Audio Control Maestro M9, I believe I can get a good deal on either one. The seven channel amp is still up in the air. I might just use the corresponding amps for these two or go for a Bryston amp due to their unbeatable warranty. 

For audio I am still researching but have a short list T&A, Esoteric, Accuphase and Luxman. I actually went to my first audio show this past weekend in Tampa, Florida and felt like a kid in a candy store..lol.. I did get to listen to the Luxman 
L 509x with the Harbeth S-HL5 and blew me away, the fullness, richness, clarity, nothing was missing. Let me tell you the Harbeth can give those Verity Otello’s a run for their money to the point I am torned between the two, will see. Unfortunately, did not see Accuphase or T&A there for a listen. Esoteric was combined with others in one big room and could not listen to them either.

Anyway, your two cents will be greatly appreciated with the decisions above.

Bwguy and Randyhat, the T2 is a huge improvement over the T1 in everyway sonically and build quality.

Mquar we are an Audio Control dealer and their products are really excellent, the Audio Control product is superior to the less expensive Arcam, if you look at the processor the Maestro M9 weighs 40 lbs vs the Arcam which weight 25 lb, also the Masetro uses all discrete Burr Brown dacs vs a shared chip in the Arcam add in longer warranties and a more sophisticated amplifier section and you can see why we prefer the Audio Control product.

So if you decision to use a High end integreated with surround sound processor and multi channel amp or are you leaning towards a high end surround sound receiver with two channel separates  which is more important to you.

If you want the best of both worlds then a two channel preamp along with a reallly good multi channel amplifier  and a separate surround sound processor may be the ticket. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Lumin  and Audio Control

Maguiar, I'm glad to see that you're getting to listen to a bunch of things. That's always the best way. I think the realization you had about splitting the system makes a lot of sense. In my experience that's the best way to get what you want.

For HT, the Arcam 860 or the AC M9 are top notch. I think they're quite similar if not the same units. I'm not sure you could do much better here. If it's in your budget to get one of these processors and a separate amp then that's a great solution. Another piece you can look at is the Arcam AVR850 which has has the 860 processing paired to a seven channel class G amp. It should end up costing less then separates and sound really good.

For audio, the idea of listening to speakers and amps together like you did with the Harbeth and Luxman makes sense. In my experience for audio there is so much involved in the amp/speaker interaction that you almost need to pick them together. I've heard speakers sound totally different based on the amp that was connected to them.

Keep listening and let us know what you find.

I just saw audiotroy's post. Looks like the Arcam and AC units are not the same. Audiotroy what do you think of the receivers made by Arcam and AC? For example are the AVR850 and AVR550 a good solution for maguiar? Are they different from the Audio Control 9 and 7? In the end would he get better sound from separates where the processor and amp have different chassis, power supplies, isolation etc. or from a combined unit where the amp is designed to work with the processor and there are no interconnect cables, cleaner signal path etc.?

Hi audiotroy,

You included three scenarios and I am still undecided between option 1 and 3.

I included the Arcam because the price point is not bad at all. The Audio Control may be a bit much, I might have to revisit this decision after purchasing the music side or getting something used. I would like to stay under 5k for the multi channel processor.

What do you guys think of the NAD M17 V2? I am also being steered towards the Anthem AVM 60 and Marantz AV8805, but still think the Arcam may be better.

Just added the NAD M17 V2 to my processor short list...

Bite the bullet and get Bryston. Good luck on a pre pro. The latest from them is behind state of the art. Their amps PERFECT.......................

If money was no object I would go with Bryston for amplification and Trinnov for my pre pro. You may get a divorce when the wife sees the bill. But you will not be disappointed in any way. Last and not least the room. But the Trinnov can make adjustments to compensate for less than perfect rooms. And they DO compensate to the point of problem solved.

Hi guys,

I just realized I am being addressed as a male in this thread. I understand that this hobby is dominated by the male gender but you will find women that appreciate this hobby as well.  I am actually a 57 year old women that appreciates good sounding music. 

Alkaloid, sorry but sticking to my budget....   I do have the Bryston and ATI in my multi channel amp short list and would like to add a couple more. Any suggestions here?

Rechsm, thanks for confirming it. The Maestro was built to sound really good and not be just a feature oriented product. The fact that use top of the line burr brown dacs and use chips for each channel and a massive power supply does show how good the pre pro is.

The Maestro sounded better than anything else we compared it to.

Maguir the Nad is a very good piece also personally we don't think it sounds as good, but for its price point it is very good.

We sell all three pieces, the Anthem, the Nad and the Audio Control.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ 

Audiotroy, do the NAD or Audio Control down-sample 24bit/96 or 24/192kHz 5.1 or 7.1 to 48kHz when room equalization (Dirac Live?) is engaged? 

FYI, this response from Anthem.

["The STR has 2.2 output channels. With ARC enabled all of these channels will be at 32/192.

The MRX/AVM will process signals in the format that matches the input. A 24/192 will be 24/192, 24/96 will be 24/96 etc… this is inclusive of ARC being run and will work up to 7.1.4 channels. The second part of the processing is up-mixing, if you have a 2.0 24/192 and want to up-mix to 11-channels you’ll need to use either of the Anthem Logics or All Channel Stereo in order for it to stay 24/192. If you use either Dolby Surround or DTS Neural then the MRX/AVM may down-sample, however the amount that it will down-sample is dynamic based on processor load and will attempt to maintain the highest level possible."]

Am I understanding this correctly? The Anthem products will down sample Dolby or DTS media which is usually video / film audio while allowing multi-channel audio to pass through?

Hi Delancey,

I know this question has come up many times but with different opinions. In your opinion what do you think effects the sound quality the most, amp or pre?

Sorry maguiar, I haven't looked at this thread in a while.

That's a really tough question and I'm not sure there's any consensus on an answer. In my experience I would say it depends on weather we're talking about 2-CH or HT.

For 2 Channel I think they are equally important because the system is only as good as the weakest link. The source -> preamp -> amp -> speaker connection is all important to get right. For me what makes 2 channel great is how believable it can be relative to a live performance. For example, does a piano sound like a live piano, do the notes have the same musicality and tone? Can you connect with the performer's intent because your system isn't just playing the right note, but it's also conveying how forcefully or softly the performer is playing the keys. I've often found that simpler is better here, so two good speakers with amps that work well with them fed by a good source.

For HT I think the processor/preamp is critical. The reason is the goals here are different. When two cars crash into each other on the screen, you want the audio to match that in size, scale, dynamics and importantly location within the room. It's not so important the tonality or musicality of the crashing sounds etc. because if the image you're seeing and sounds you're hearing sync up then you're transported there. Here the amp and speakers are not that critical and often people use different amps, speakers and even speaker locations. What makes all this work correctly is the processor and equally importantly the room correction. A good processor can adjust frequency imperfections in speaker/amp/room interactions, or  adjust delay times for speakers that are further way, or adjust crossovers so subs can help smaller speakers, and some even adjust impulse response. This is all within reason of course which is why many people say to get the same speakers and amps for all the channels and put them in a well treated room. However, a good processor can fix a lot of stuff. The only downside to spending a lot on a processor is that unlike amps they lose value quickly because there's always something new coming out.

Anyway, this is a very controversial topic and my views are based on what I've learned in this hobby so far. I hope others will share their experiences especially if they're different.

Hi Delancey,

Thanks for your response...  Your explanation makes total sense even not being a technical person like myself. I am still torn on the hook setup that audiotroy mentioned on 02/15/19 and you pr input will be greatly appreciated. 

I have actually pushed the purchase date to June/July, so I have plenty of time to continue my research. What do you think about Vinnie Rossi, Audionet and Aavik?

My recommendation is spend on getting a good 2ch integrated, then get a decent a/v pre/pro and a decent multichannel amp.

Reasoning is for movies you don’t need the level of quality as 2ch music.  I have been trying to figure out an integrated 2ch / multichannel setup and have finally landed on a Luxman 509X + Marantz 8805 + McIntosh 7106 multichannel amp (had this one already and do not have that many speakers).  Just ordered the Luxman after demoing a bunch of different amps.  

The Luxman has a “separates” toggle which separates the amp from the preamp, so when watching movies you can switch it to amp mode and it is driven by the Marantz or other pre/pro  When listening to 2ch you you can switch to integrated mode.

Hi Eziggy,

Thanks for your response..  Actually my number one contender to far is the Luxman 509x. I am also looking into the Pass Labs Int250, Mark Levinson 585,
Gryphon Diablo and Hegel H590. Although, I think the Hegel is overpriced I would comsider it if I get a good deal.    

How do you like the Marantz compared to all others? I am considering the Nad, Arcam or Audio Control Maestro 9 (If I can get a good deal on it).

Audiotroy,

Sorry not interested in Krell or Anthem products and don’t plan to stream, I enjoy my cd’s. I currently own an 11 year old Arcam for cd’s which I have no complaints about but I may consider an upgrade, still looking into that. My priority is selecting a good amp for my music. If i can find a multi channel pre/pro and amp that can do the job for both to my liking, it will be a plus, no argument there.

Reference speakers, I have the Sonus Faber’s for HT but still undecided between the Verity Otello’s and Harbeth 40.2 for music. I am leaning a bit more to the Verity’s at this time but will be auditioning the Harbeth this coming Saturday with the above mentioned amps.

I am not arguing the Audio Control Maestro and the Plinius Odeon maybe a good match for both but I will not commit to anything I can’t audition. I am still working on options.

Thanks for your input and always open for suggestions.

Hi Audiotroy,

My apologies for not being so clear on the dac situation. A dac is not priority since I listen to cd’s mostly but I may consider streaming in the future. When I do decide, would it be to my advantage to purchase an exterior dac due to advances in technology? Please advise.....

Also you did not address the HT side of this. If the Audio Control and the Plinius can accomplish both worlds, I am certainly interested.

Thanks again,

Maguiar yes the 2500R is $12k retail, our best advice would be to seek out the correct product first, rather than shopping based on what is available on the secondardy market.

Very rare to find a used 2500 R most dealers don't sell their demos the only used ones were from Sunny components and those pieces are so old many of them don't have any factory warranty left and very few customers sell there T+A gear, the brand makes keeper products.

We would of coursse work with you if we have products that you would want to get. 

Personally the Plinius Oden pllus the Audio Control with a good analog preamp would be one fantastic HT and 2 Channel Music rig

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ T+A dealers

A little off topic but auxinput, what would be the earlier generation Marantz processors that you would recommend that have the quality/voicing characteristics of the Marantz AV8805?

Hi Maguiar,

Those are all great integrateds, each with a their own sound signatures.  For me, the Luxman was the biggest bang for the buck, not only did I like the sound and matching with my ML 11As, it was the cheapest by a couple thousand.  Also, I really like that it's completely analog with less chance of something going wrong (like touch controls, DAC board, etc.).

I really like the Marantz, it's well build and has the Denon/Marantz A/V engineering, firmware updates, reliability, and features.  In my opinion they have mastered the A/V side of things.  You pretty much setup and it works, with firmware updates coming in somewhat regularly.  It is one of the few processors that has all the latest surround support (ATMOS, IMAX, etc.). With the Marantz you get discreet analog output boards as well.  Sound quality is fantastic, particularly with movies.  It tends to be on the warmer side for music.

I don't know much about the Audio Control Maestro, other than it's a tweaked Arcam, so I imagine you are reliant on Arcam's firmware updates.  All are amazing products in terms of sound quality.  It comes down to which room correction and features.  One thing to note, I have seen Arcam crash during demos, but in all honesty that could have just been random one offs.

Ezzigy, actually it is not a tweeked Arcam.

As per Integrated amplifiers if you hear a PA 2500R you would most likely prefer it to the Luxman. 

T+A is a much larger company with far greater engineering resources then Luxman, the Luxman products are excellent but the T+A gear is really surprising.  The 2500R uses a novel switch mode power supply to run a high output Class A/B amplifier stage running on high voltage rails, the High Voltage rail design helps create a more tube like sound. 

Their is a speed and dyanmic impact with the 2500R that you just don't generally hear too often, the amplifier also carves out a huge soundtage.

In our shop over the years we have had a lot of top integrated amplifiers from Luxman, Coda, Norma, Hegel and many others none of them were close to offering the unique combination of speed, detail, soundstage, bass impact, dynamic punch and a flowing midrange that you get out of the 2500R

Would I trade in one for the other the answer is no, but we would have loved to see your impressions. 

The power output of the 2500r is 140 watts 8 ohm, 280 4 ohm, 520 watt 2 ohm loads all out of a compact chassis. 

Arcam and Audio Control worked together to design all of the current line of Arcam surround products, as the original Arcam HDMI boards were failing miserably in the fileld after a few years hence they turned to Audio Control whose equipment is sold to custom installers building very expensive Home Theaters.

Audio Control is seen as a state of the art HT pre/pro for the music concious user and one who doesn’t need more than a 9.2 and is concerned more with sound quality then features.

Audio Control is an indendent manufacturer who started first building high end car audio before braching out and over the years have designed all their own amplifiers and processors.

The Maestro M9 weighs a staggering 40lbs based on a massive power supply and features all independent burr brown dac chips the comparable Arcam processor weighs 25 lbs and use a single dac chip for all channels.

Arcam builds class G amplifiers Audio Control builds Class H both of these amplfier designs use two voltage rails the more difficult to build is the Class H design which use a more advanced circuit to anticipate the need for the higher voltage rail and accomplish the transition.

Over the years we have had the Anthem Statement D2V, the Anthem AVM 60 and the Marantz 8801A and the Audio Control sounded far better than any of them.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Audio Control

@gareneau, The successor to the 8805, the 8802A, is similar to the 8805.  Anything older then you won't be getting latest processing technology. PM me if you want to discuss further.

@audiotroy,  my point was only to say that they may rely on Arcam for firmware updates.

My biggest learning has been to pay the least you in your budget range for the features and sound you need for processors.  They devalue VERY quickly and become outdated just as fast.  Most of the current generation A/V processor are already a bit dated for the price they charge. 

I can tell you a multichannel processor will be fantastic for music, but will generally be beat by a comparable 2ch preamp for music.

@eziggy,

What made you go for the MC7106 for your multi channel amp? You mentioned the Marantz is on the warm side and I know that MacIntosh is already a warm line.

Eziggy,

I looked at my post and saw I did not mention the Marantz but it is on my list for pro. 

@maguiar good question, I already had the MC452 amp so I wanted to keep in the family for my center/surrounds.  Found a great deal on a used MC7106 on Craigslist.  The MC7106 is actually directly coupled so is less warm than their amps with autoformers.  I ended up getting rid of surrounds for the time being and bridged 2 channels for my center (a harder to driver ML Stage).

The Marantz + MC452 + ML 11A speakers needless to say was too warm thus my switch to the Luxman.  Funny enough when I compared the MC452 vs. MC7106 bridged, the MC7106 sounded better with ML 11As, crisper highs.  It is a fairly powerful amp that can be found ~$1K+ used.

I have been a Denon/Marantz guy for a long time (for A/V).  I have to say my overall experience with Marantz has been great, especially for the price.  The attention to detail is pretty impressive, down to the copper chassis.

I like the fact it’s upgradeable to HDMI 2.1, it’s built like a tank, audio quality is great especially for movies, and the processing capabilities is amazing (even including IMAX).  On the video side, you really don’t get better for the price.  I know you mentioned you aren’t into streaming, but down the road if you decide to get into streaming their HEOS app can send native FLAC from Tidal to the 8805.  Not in the same level as dedicated DAC streamers, but still a nice to have.

Only negative is that it runs somewhat hot as all Marantz and Denon receivers/processors and it does not do analog passthrough (unprocessed) over balanced XLR input, just RCA.  Though this is really a non-issue for home theater use.

Eziggy,

You mentioned that the Marantz runs hot and that is a concern for me, since I watch a lot of TV and Movies..  

If 2 channel is most important to you, and you can only have 2 "boxes"

I might consider a nice HT receiver to run everything but your mains and 2 channel listening, and get a killer integrated with at HT loop to drive your mains and 2 channel system.

For years I tried to do HT and 2 channel with a 5 channel amp and higher end pre-pro.

Best I owned was the Classe SSP 800 and 5200 amp.  It did a nice job with 2 channel, but not what a dedicated pre-amp and 2 channel amp, or killer 2 channel integrated has done.

The other issue - reliability.  Really, really tough to compete on the HDMI/Processor front with the big companies.  

Get a nice Marantz surround receiver and killer integrated... 

@dep14,

This is what I am trying to do, separate my HT from my music. When I started this thread I was considering to intergrade my HT to my music but everything points to the opposite.

I am looking at the above listed intergrade for music but still undecided on the HT front. HT pre/pro considered are the Arcam, Nad, Audio Control Maestro 9 and Marantz. My concern is there is mention of the Marantz running hot and the Audio Control might be out of my budget unless I can get a killer deal on it. 

I am not technical at all, I usually have this all set up for me. I am not clear on the matter Marantz and an intergrade, do I not need a multi channel amp as well? I understand I will use my intergrade for my two channel music but I would also need a pre/pro and multi channel amp for HT. By chance any experience with any HT systems listed above or others and share the pros and cons to each?

@maguair, the Marantz is meant to be left on and used for extended periods of time, so won’t be a problem. If you plan on putting it in an enclosed cabinet, then you should get the inexpensive AC Inifnity Aircom fan unit to put on top. That should be used with any component in an enclosed space, including the other processors or amps you are looking at. But with enough clearance and air flow I wouldn’t worry about it. It may not be any hotter than the other processors, I have not compared. My older Denon x6400H receiver ran far hotter and I would leave it one for extended periods of time and never had an issue.

You would need a multi-channel amp as well to drive your other speakers (center and surrounds). The pre/pro has analog audio which feeds to your integrated for the front L/R two speakers, and the other channel outputs to another amp (or amps) to drive any other speakers.

edit:  just noticed @dep14’s post, you can definitely just pick up a higher end Marantz or Denon receiver to drive the rest of your home theater speakers. You would just use the pre-out for the L/R to the integrated.  However, just make sure your speakers are easy to drive.

Just a comment.  maguair is coming from a Krell S1000 as a processor.  I have tested the Marant 8805 in my system and compared it to my Krell S1200U.  The Marantz is a very good device with excellent bass and midrange impact.  Full and natural sound.  However, it is voiced warm and the high frequencies are softened and rolled-off.  It is very excellent sound, but it could end up being too "dull" sounding for you, unless you want this type of signature.

@auxinput makes a great point, it’s a matter of taste.  As an example, if you compare Denon with Marantz, they share similar components but the Denon is voiced on the brighter side compared to Marantz.  Major difference, other than the sound signature, is that the Marantz is well regarded for having their HDAM analog output stages for the pre outs.

@maguair if you decide to go down the receiver route, Denon’s flagship X8500H is one to look at as well.  That is one amazing receiver for the price.  I had the X6400H and it was fantastic, the X8500H is another level from that.

@maguiar

So, unless your center, surrounds, and atmos (if you go that way) are hard to drive - the easiest solution is probably a really nice integrated amp, and a surround receiver to do your surround processing, and drive everything but your 2 channel.

An integrated with a built-in DAC could even simplify streaming.

I have a Marantz 8802 processor, but it does require outside amps to drive my center and rears. (I’m only running 5.1). I currently have a Mark Levinson 585 driving my 2 channel. (I also have pass labs separates I am selling as the 585 is really good). I’ll be using the built-in DAC to take my streamer signal and that makes things even easier.

That said, if I did it over today I would probably just do a higher end receiver and a nice integrated to simplify further. The nicer 2 channel integrated amps have really surprised me with how good they sound for 2 channel.

That said, if the budget is 22k... you have all sorts of options.  My biggest question is actually - how much space, shelves, etc do you have and want to use.

The larger companies have one huge advantage I've found and that is in the HDMI switching/pass through market, along with having the latest surround chips.  Their stuff works.  The higher end stuff DOES sound a bit better particularly for 2 channel (if your SSP is going to do 2 channel), but lord knows they almost all seem to have HDMI switching issues/lag/boards going out, or are a bit behind on the surround processing.  Surround formats and HDMI etc change so quickly it's hard to have a solution that is cost effective if you want to have the latest and greatest.

But... how many "boxes" do you want and how much space?  

wow, one of the best discussions I've read in a long time on any forum. Civil, very informative and lots of expertise/ experience.      

I'm using a "vintage" Marantz Sr6003 (soon to be replaced by a SR8012 or 8805 lol  thinking, thinking ) in my system as a preamp to the front three, and bi-amping off of a six channel Krell S1500. I've tried Bryston, Sunfire (rebuilt 5 x200), Carver and Parasound amps before settling on the Krell. The SR powers the sides and rear speakers in a 7.2 configuration. Using KEF Reference 5s (bought new/used for a great price )  and 4C for the fronts, Q900 sides (use to be the fronts) and Q800d for rear (which must be rewired to work correctly BTW) .System is used 40% for music. Truly sounds amazing IMHO and to all of those of all that have heard it. And much better than systems I've heard that have cost more. The S1500 never runs out of steam and suits my tastes for speed, articulation, and clarity just perfectly. That being said, the S1500 is very honest in that it presents everything upstream as they are... it doesn't hide weak links of which I still have a few lol But I'm working on it! I have a second surround system 7.1 in my mancave (75% music) powered by a Marantz 6007 and the Sunfire 5 x 200.The Marantz have been very dependable, are very musical,have great voicing for TV / movies, offer excellent switching, easy menus but are neither warm sounding nor clinical. 

@eziggy,

I have a cabinet that has approx. 6” between boxes and opened in the back.
I don’t think a processor will get even close to the heat generated by an amp. but when you commented I worried a bit. Anyway, your clarification helped me with this matter.

@dep14 

My budget is between 35-38k for speakers and boxes. I believe I can get a good deal for all, since I probably will be buying from the same dealer. I am looking at at least 30% and for this kind of money I am confident I can work this out.  I have speaker cables and interconnects that would like to try before moving to something different and save that money. Anyway, this expense for cables, etc. will come from the amp I am selling at this time.

My biggest expense will be my 2 speakers for music and the intergrated amp.
I already have my HT speakers, one less expense, but also need the pre/pro and multi channel amp. I also have an Arcam CD player that I can live with for a while and the Oppo UDP 203 which is pretty good.  I have a cabinet that will fit all these boxes, this is not a problem. I am just looking for good synergy, since this is my last purchase, no room for error. I understand the pre/pro must be upgraded at some point but I am looking for pieces that will work long term.

I am actually looking into boxes that will work with my current speakers which are very good, Sonus Faber Grand Pianos Home. These can be a bit bright with certain boxes and I am looking for neutral to warm. I think the Mac, Mark Levinson, Luxman, Classe, Plinius, Parasound and the Pass Labs might be a good match. If this works out the Verity’s and Harbeth might be out, but these two do sound great, “temptation”....  I do love those Verity’s...  Your imput here will be appreciated.

Jimpit.

I actually have the Krell S-1500/5 for sale now, it is a good amp and everything you write about it I agree with. In my opinion it’s a very neutral amp and will do better with warmer speakers, since it can lean towards the brighter side with some boxes. I am just looking for a different sound altogether.