Brownsfan... so that's where you've been. Lucky you.
http://chicagoclassicalreview.com/2013/04/thielemann-batiashvili-and-dresden-orchestra-serve-up-memorable-afternoon-of-brahms/ |
Lowrider, It was one of those experiences you don't forget. It was, for me at least, the Brahms 4 that stole the show. The violin concerto was very good. Not great. It was cool seeing the concerto played on the ex-Joachim Strad, which I presume was used at the first concert in Leipzig. I was sitting in the 4th row, main floor, right in front of the soloist. At the end of the 4th, during the applause, Christian looked me right in the eye and said Thank You (not danke). Then he turned to the audience and said, "you know what we are going to play." We got the Wagner as the encore. Superb! Makes me want to move to Dresden!. |
"We got the Wagner as the encore."
He must really like Chicago.
(I sent u a PM). |
Chicago really liked him, and boy was that snippet of Wagner a serious tease! I need to get up there more often for concerts. PM hasn't come through yet. Saturday night we heard the piano version of the Brahms violin concerto here in Indy, plus the Rite of Spring. Then up to Chicago for an all Brahms program. Last Wed I heard the Brentano Quartet here in town with 2 of the Beethoven quartets. Its been a week in Valhalla! This, my friends, is paradise regained! |
After some deliberation and listening to snips, i decided to go for something different. I have Karajan '63 remastered, Furtwangler's war-time remastered versions from Tahra and Audite, and also Harnoncourt.
So went with Hogwood and the AAM. Deliberate, studious and period...looking forward to it. |
Lloydelee21, A very good choice....so different than the cycles we've been discussing. I won't spoil it for you, all I'll say is I like that he credits his musicians and the period instruments they play.
Will wait for your review. |
Wow! Thanks, Lowrider57! Now, i am even more excited! And yes, that was exactly my initial impression...very different than the cycles i already have. I did not want to get a complete cycle...only to think its a whole nother cycle but not bringing me a new interpretation of Beethoven. I enjoy playing truly different interpretations of certain music. I have several Goldberg variations for example. |
Loydelee, I often find that Hogwood, Manze and Gardiner are mentioned together contextually. We somewhat got off track from Beethoven and touched upon the Brahms Symphonies. I may find a way to order the Manze Brahms recordings which are on CPO. They've gotten rave reviews from critics and fans alike. I wish I also had the means to purchase the Hogwood set that you've ordered. My guess is that both the Manze and the Hogwood are audiophile standard recordings. |
Thanks, Goofyfoot. Much appreciated your continued participation here...much to read and enjoy. I will certainly post when it arrives from Amazon. I always buy second hand. Hope to have it next week. |
Goofyfoot, I had my eye on that Brahms set for a long time prior to its release. I got the impression from one review I read that it might be along the same lines as the Macarras set on Telarc, which is OK but is not necessarily what I like in Brahms. Maybe this is worth a 2nd look. I take it this is a set you recommend highly. |
Brownsfan, I can't recommend it highly just yet (not until I own it at least) but one of the reviews (possibly on ArkivMusic) highly favors this performance over any of the other period recordings. Apparently, Manze had done some extensive research and only used it to his advantage. Also, CPO is one of my favorite labels for its clarity of sound and its open soundstage.
I do own a Manze recording of him conducting Mozart with the English Consort and it's delightful.
I'll just have to do some creative financing to cover the cost, but that will be a couple weeks from now. |
Well, the Hogwood AAM Beethoven cycle arrived today...early! 1st, 3rd and 5th are really great. listening to 5th now...i really like this set so far. Very well paced, both contemplative, taking its time and yet filled with energy...all of which is very nicely recorded. he keeps the tension nicely taut thru the 5th so far. not bombastic but with a dynamism that is fun to enjoy. And again, nice recording. |
Goofyfoot, The review I read was on SACD.net. I got the idea it was another post HIP run of the mill me too. I do agree on CPO. Check out the Dvorak quartets. I love the first release. Also, I really like Venzago's Bruckner, and plan on ordering the upcoming Teleman St. Lukas Passion. Its a great label.
Brahms, I can love uber Teutonic, i can love lyricissimo Italian, but I can't warm up to anemic Brahms. If you order this and find it to your liking, let me know. For now, I'm hoping the Polini/Theileman/DSO portends much more Brahms, even if it has to come on Deutche Gramophone. What I heard Sunday in Chicago won me over. I loved that Brahms 4! |
Agree, Lloydelee21. Very dynamic and very well paced. It's on L'Oiseau-Lyre, so naturally the sound is first-rate.
I wasn't sure about buying this HIP cycle; it's not widely reviewed, so I bought them all individually(used) and I'm glad I did. |
Brownsfan, I'll see if I can grab up those recommended CD's from the public library. The library does purchase a good number of classical recordings but they typically make ill informed choices.
Anyway, so you're saying that the review that you read on the Manze Brahms was that it's run of the mill? Then there seems to be some inconsistencies between reviews, here are some citations from the review on ArkivMusic;
'Nevertheless, these recordings have much to commend them, and Manze achieves his goal, whether h.i.p. or post-h.i.p., of breathing new life into works stifled by their own performance traditions.'
'Fortunately then, the Helsingborg Symphony Orchestra ensures that every moment in these recordings is worth focusing on. The balance is excellent, a result perhaps of Manze going for a moderately sized string section. Vibrato in the strings is present but minimal, while the woodwind soloists are permitted a little more wobble. The constrained tones of the horns and trombones contribute most to the 19 th century atmosphere of the orchestral sound. The SACD sound is excellent, and the recording really benefits from the warm but clear acoustic of the Helsingborg Concert Hall.'
'Something different, then, to add to your Brahms collection. Manze pursues his aesthetic ideology quite doggedly here, but never at the expense of the results. He's too much of a professional to let his scholarship ever stand in the way of his intuitive musicianship, which must surely have played just as big a role in the formation of these interpretations.'
The reviewers on Amazon also give praise to his set so that's from where I've been formulating my expectations. This best way of course is to hear it for myself. |
Goofyfoot, I reread the SA-CD.net review on the Manze Brahms. Its a bit more positive than I had remembered it. This may well be worth a shot. |
Well Brownsfan, after having read the David Hurwitz review, I am now skeptical about this Brahms Manze set. This was the first out and out criticism of the performances that I've read and while I try not to give reviews too much credit, I tend to side with Mr. Hurwitz on most accounts.
Damn those critics, they always ruin everything.
However, I do own the Marek Janowski Brahms 4 with the Hungarian Dances on PetaTone and while I prefer the Ivan Fischer and the Budapest Festival Orchestra Hungarian Dances to that of Janowski and the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra, the 4th is worth the price of the disk in and of itself. So I've made a final decision being that my next Brahms purchase will be the Marek Janowski Brahms 2 & 3 with the PSO on PentaTone. Yes, I know that I'm playing it safe here but because I don't have money to throw around, then so shall it be.
It's funny because I tend to weed through the western and central European groups first but here I am siding again with the Pittsburgh. How times have changed. |
Goofyfoot, I get no enjoyment out of doing this, but I think the Janowski 4th is more to my liking that the 2nd and 3rd. I used the same reasoning and found the 2nd and 3rd a let down. Don't listen to that disc much. |
Brownsfan, well thank you kind sir, you've just saved me $15.00 that can be put to use somewhere else. In fact I've had my eye on the Bob Dylan 'Blood on the Tracks' SACD from Mobile Fidelity.
Brahms is a tough composer to weed through seeing that many of the greatest interpretations date back to the 1940's. As a result, Brahms lovers can be set in their ways, therefore making it difficult for the newer recordings to live up to those previous accomplishments. I'm looking at my Andante Brahms Symphonies box set and the conductors on it are;
Toscanini 1941, Walter 1936, Stokowski 1936, Mengelberg 1932, Monteux 1945, Sabata 1936, Furtwängler 1945, Weingartner 1938. |
I also posted on a Gramophone forum with respect to the Beethoven Cycles and was informed of the Mikhail Pletnev cycle with the Russian National Orchestra. Has anyone heard this set? What is your opinion of Russian or Eastern European academies whenever concerning the music of Vienna or of Central Europe? This is of interest to me in the context that many recordings made during the Soviet Union are just now being discovered by us here in the West. |
Sorry cannot say...except that Pletnev on Scarlatti piano works is exceptional ihmo. |
Hi Loydelee,
Maybe we could give this subject a bit more latitude; USSR recordings including Eastern Block countries like Hungary, etc... The point being that Vienna and Budapest are next door neighbors, so one might conclude that a handful of Beethoven performances recorded from behind the 'Iron Curtain' would be of significance. My assumption is that despite Mylodia and their efforts from the 1950's forward, that many recordings are yet to be delivered to the public domain.
A while back, the Appian label released a series of recordings entitled 'The Russian Piano Tradition' and it would appear that this was an attempt to finally release unfamiliar Russian recordings to us here in the west. As one might imagine, it included Beethoven pieces from Maria Yudina but also from many other Russian pianists who are anything but household names. This series has been out of print now for a few or more years. What I'm driving at is that I believe we're just scratching the surface when it comes to Russian and Eastern European artists, including those who attended conservatories both in the US and in Western Europe. |
Goofyfoot,
I think you are right. I really like Pletnev, Horowitz and the latest find is the conductor Tugan Sokhiev with the Toulouse National Orchestra. He studied in Eastern Europe...I have gotten nearly everything he has done with that orchestra...his Pictures at an Exhibition is extraordinary in my opinion, mny favorite interpretation, and i have several at home and i consider Pictures one of my fav orchestral pieces of all time. |
Thanks Lloydelee for the recommendation. I got started on this when I was in Odessa, Ukraine and I went to a piano recital in the Philharmonie. The pianist was superb and he had studied abroad at the Juilliard School in the early 1960's. Of course he went back to Ukraine because he had secured a position, probably teaching. I'll keep looking around in this realm for Beethoven but for other composers also.
By the way, I have a recording of Szell conducting the Coriolan Overture in 1959 at the Prague Spring Festival with the Czech Phil. It's a very satisfying live performance. |
Gardiner's cycle is poorly recorded....I think they tried to put too much on each disc. |
Stringreen, I agree. Everytime I play the gardiners I think I've got a tube going bad. Its a shame, because based on artistic merit these recordings are real winners. And his Missa Solemnis, despite the bad recoridng quality, is really the only one I listen to much. Speaking of the Missa, anyone heard Herrewhegge's account on Harmonia Mundi? |
Brownsfan,
Good to know...i also like the Missa Solemnis by Gardiner. Have not heard the Herrewhegge...do post if you hear it. |
