Greetings! Looking for some feedback on a wired digital audio setup.
My primary goal is to play hi-res (up to 24/192) lossless files bit perfectly in a plug and play fashion.
Here's my current (modest) arrangement, my iMac is too far from the DAC to hard wire, forcing use of Airplay and downsampling to 16-44.1...
2014 iMac w/
external HDD
(~4TB of FLAC/ALAC files)
> Audirvana 3.5/Roon (both on trial currently, migrating from iTunes/Music) > Airplay (via Airport Express) optical > Cambridge Audio DACMagic Plus > Rega Brio > Q Acoustics 3050i I'd like to add a server/streamer next to the DAC that I can access remotely to take the iMac out of the chain. Initially was looking at a headless 2012 MacMini > DAC using Audirvana/Roon but I know not truly dedicated to audio.
When going down the Roon rabbit hole I was intrigued by the Nucleus in place of the Mini. I would likely look to move the file storage to a 2-4 bay NAS accessed by either the Mini or Nucleus.
It feels a bit askew to spend more money on the server/storage than I'm into for the DAC/Receiver/Speakers but the ease and cleanliness of the Nucleus has a lot of appeal.
Are there any simpler/less expensive options I'm overlooking that might help me accomplish my playback goals, keeping in mind my audio component level? I'm not very keen on having to assemble so the NUC/ROCK option isn't something I've considered. I also looked at the Bluesound Node2i but feedback on the OS is poor and sounds like some challenges with being actually Roon Ready.
I signed up for Roon software and moved from a PC based system to the Nucleus+. It made a HUGE difference. There is so much else going on in a PC. System monitoring and all sorts of stuff that you don't realize. Having a simple, dedicated devicce can make an enormous difference.
I became a dealer for Roon I liked everything so much. The wonderful part about the Nucleus is you don't need to think about it. It is just on all the time.
You need to have the Nucleus on your network via Ethernet. That can be plugged into your Airport Express and then USB to your DAC. You can plug an external drive into the Nucleus or there are internal ports to mount a drive. A separate NAS is not necessary unless you really want it. That is one of the things I like most about it.
I ordered a Nucleus for a customer about a week ago and Roon is backed up a little. That one is set to ship June 1st. I would guess if you order one today it will ship somewhere around the 8th of June.
Surprisingly, I have been talking to two people lately, and both had the exact same experience that I had. Upgrading their server did more to improve sound than upgrading their DAC.
You might use a Google MESH system to generate an Ethernet network, run Roon core on your iMac and use a Senore microRendu or ultraRendu as the Roon endpoint with USB to a DAC of your choice. It's simple to setup, the iMac doesn't need to be near the end point or DAC, and it's flexible for changes you might want to make in the future. The sound can be superb. You likely can find a microRendu or ultraRendu in the used market at a very reasonable price.
I'm leery about expensive special-purpose devices.
@dbphd I do use Google Mesh WiFi for my network. Unfortunately the iMac is still too far to connect to Ethernet and honestly is terribly slow in it's old age. If the core runs on it without an Ethernet connection I'm pretty sure I'll still be dealing with a downsampled stream to the end point? my plan was to add an unmanaged switch to the google WiFi to connect the server and a NAS, should i decide to add that. your concerns on special-purpose devices does make sense though. wonder if a Innuos Zen Mini MK3 might be a better option than the Nucleus as it may a bit more versatile? Thanks for the feedback all, keep it coming!
@travisnordgren. WiFi works great, until it doesn’t. I have a Orbi mesh and had my nucleus attached to a satellite. Worked great at first. I guess one of my neighbors got the same system and using same channels. Lots of drops from my Nucleus. Installed a dedicated cat 6 to it and never looked back.
@gelle yeah, i intend to connect whatever server or computer i use (as well as a NAS) directly with ethernet via the switch. that should do the trick, right?
@gelle the google wifi only has one LAN connection. planned to run that into a switch and then connect the nucleus and NAS. if that wouldn't work, any other options other than a different router?
As I understand it, a Roon Nuc is a stripped down single purpose PC based Roon Core device... I think its better than your iMac as far as noise (read EMI/RFI) is concerned... However it is still not as quiet as a ROON ENDPOINT might be...
The trick is to run Roon Core on your iMac (Nuc or other general purpose computer) and have an Roon Ready network streamer/player (aka Roon Endpoint) connected directly to your DAC... In my case something like this: Apple MacBook (Roon Core) -> ethernet/Wifi/LAN/WAN -> Lumin U1 mini (RAAT/Endpoint) -> USB -> Chord Quest -> PreAmp -> Amp -> Speakers...
@travisnordgren - Have Roon Nucleus in my main rig feeding Chord Qutest via Curious USB Cable. Have Melco N1A functioning as a combination NAS and ethernet line purifier with Nucleus tethered via ethernet cable (AQ Cinnamon) to Melco's player port. Been running this configuration since November when I acquired the Nucleus and have been very happy with it. Earlier this month replaced Nucleus stock switch mode power supply with 19 volt Sbooster LPS, which also allowed me to use better power cord (Shunyata Venom 3). This provided immediate benefits, but Sbooster is still breaking in. As it so happens, the Nucleus replaced a Bluesound Node 2i in my main rig. The Node 2i is now part of my desktop system, and functions very happily as a Roon endpoint.
" . . . There is so much else going on in a PC. System monitoring and all sorts of stuff that you don’t realize. . ."
This is where Fidelizer and/or Audiophile Optimizer comes in. They shutdown or re-prioritize computer processes specifically for audio playback. The results are a lower noise floor and improved tonality. They can be used separately or together. If together, Fidelizer provides settings for a handshake. Still with anything digital, good LPS’s with good power cords are required to get rid of digitus completely. A PC requires a different kind of LPS than a router/modem. (It’s more than a voltage issue.)
If I continue to run the Roon Core on my iMac but it is connected to the network via WiFi (not Ethernet), will the signal sent to a Roon Ready endpoint be bit perfect? Unclear as to the integrity of the signal being sent to the endpoint over WiFi. The files would be connected to the iMac on an external HDD.
The Roon/Nucleus solution looks appealing; I agree wireless options and headless Mac minis are undependable. One cheap solution: a long toslink cable to your MacBook if it's one that still has the optical out, or to a HMDI splitter if it's a new MacBook without the S/PDIF. Not perfection, but less than $100...
As long as you have a reasonable WiFi between your MacBook your WiFi basestation and WiFi between your basestation and your Roon Ready Endpoint, yes, you have bit perfect transfers/streams... If you have WiFi dropouts then you would most likely get dropouts and errors...
I assume you are connected to the internet via WiFi from your laptop to a WiFi basestation...
My perhaps flawed understanding is that the Google MESH system generates a distributed Ethernet. The master MESH unit plugs into the router. The cables from the MESH units appear to be Ethernet cables that plug into Ethernet ports. When I plug the cable into my iMac, it shows Ethernet as being connected.
In any case, I run two setups with Roon core running on a Mini downstairs. The router is upstairs. One setup is what appears to be an Ethernet cable to an ultraRendu that outputs USB to an Ayre Codex DAC then balanced analog to an Ayre A7e integrated driving KEF LS50s. The other setup is an Ethernet cable from the master MESH unit to an Ayre QX-5 Twenty digital hub (and Roon endpoint) that outputs balanced analog to 5-Twenty series Ayre preamp and amp that drive KEF Reference 1s. The sound in each case is excellent to superb with no dropouts. With the appropriate files, the QX-5 displays 192 or DSD. I subscribe to both Qobuz and Tidal.
@dbphd isn't the master google mesh unit the actual router? i believe you're suggesting the access points (additional units) actually function as hardwired ethernet extensions, which may be true. they do have LAN ports that you can connect to other devices. is the mini running the roon core on your network via ethernet or wifi? thanks!
The Google master unit is connected to the router. Both the upstairs iMac and downstairs Mini (sole purpose is to run Roon core) indicate they are connected to the Ethernet. This weekend I plan to move the Mini upstairs and connect it to the spare Ethernet port of the router, but I doubt it will make any difference. The DSD download of Take Five from the Ayre QX-5 Twenty is at least the equal of the DSD disc played using the Ayre DX-5 DSD, as is the Qobuz 192/24 file.
I recall reading about MESH technology. Apparently it's commonly used by cable systems. I don't claim to understand it, just know it works for me.
More relevant, I think, is my point about being leery of expensive special-purpose components. You can deactivate most of the ancillary functions of a Mac Mini used for running Roon core, and a well-configured late 2012 can be had for about $500.
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