Okonrad, I agree that the big Classes have synergy with the 802s. When the good reviews of the B&Ws were published I auditioned them in a all Spectral system and found them too dry. Recently I got the same amplifiers and the dealer had set them up with the 802s which now sounded superior. These amps can produce powerful bass and at other times can be very delicate. They also allow you to follow musical lines of instruments deep in the mix.
BTW what type of cables are you using? |
Try widening the speakers for a bigger sounstage, if you can. 8' on center is good. Go incrementally till you get there checking the central image with a good CD. Listen to Caverna Magica by Andreas Vollenwieder 1st track amazing soundstaging, and depth. |
Update on the B&w Diamond 802s:
Well they are up on the Sound Anchor stands. My house is old and the music room floor is pretty dished (like a bowl) so leveling and ensuring that speakers were perpendicular to the floor was a trial. A lot of work but worth it as I discuss below.
I raised the listening chair about four inches using some risers so my ears are at the midrange level.
Oh and the other big changes was purchasing some Classe CT-M600s from a dealer for amplification (they replace the CAM 350s I was using).
16x 15 x 10 room with the speakers 6'8" apart and my ears about 8' 6'' from the midrange cone. I positioned them in room using the Cardas approach so they are well out and then adjusted by ear.
First of all the CT-600s are amazing. Any flabby bass, GONE. All the bass info is all there (depending on the recording) and it's always tonally accurate and complete. Never exaggerated, never deminimized. And no boom. I also struck with these amps at how sweet the midrange and treble are. Listening you are at serious tenitus risk as you just want to keep taking the volume up when there is no brightness. Soundstage and imaging are all there when on the recording. And to use a cliched term, the combo of the speakers with amps makes for a very coherernt sound.
The sound anchors improve on the tiptoes I was using by improving imaging and particularly the depth of the soundstage.
All in all a tremendously musical sound that sounds good on a much wider range of recordings than my prior Piegea C3Ltd/Cam 350 setup.
Thanks for reading. Otto |
Oh and 8' apart for speakers is usually about the norm. any feedback on distance between spkrs in other systems? Let us know. My room is 18x20 with another 13' behind it with a 10' opening so more like 18x33. |
sounds awesome. wish we could compare sound in person, Im in Long Island NY. I use a Classe DR-25 250/ch and an ARC LS-7 wish I could hear your rig. Glad the tip toes help. but sounds like you could afford the soundanchor stands. Is your floor carpeted. Did you post any pics?
See my virtual pics, they are old but you get the idea |
Sounds like you have them dialed in - very nice! I've found that big B&Ws like big amps - those new Classes should bring things up a notch or two |
Oh, and I have a pair of Classe CT-M600s on the way to replace the CAM-350s. Katy bar that door :) |
I have been fine tuning the room chair speaker relationship and I think I just about have it. In my 16x14x10 room they are about 7 feet apart now and I am sitting about 8 feet back. Each speaker is about five feet from the back wall and 3 from the side walls. The sound is coherent, musical and virtually no more boom (I put em up tip toes and raised the height of my chair too).
They are lovely and they rock. Was listening to a Liberty Blue Note pressing of Art Blakey's Jazz Corner of the World last night. Blakey's drum kit was huge and full of snap. And Hank Mobley's and Lee Morgan's tenor and trumpet, respectively, just leapt out of the speakers. Really something. |
Thanks for the comparison - that's about what I would have thought. With the 802 having bigger drivers and much more cabinet volume they are going to have much more bass impact. The tricky thing is making it work in a smallish room without having problems, which it looks like is the problem that you are facing. Sounds like tonally they are a bit more on the warmer side compared with the Piegs. |
The C3Ltds were first and foremost transparent and revealing. Well recorded music sounded tremendous played through those speakers. Poorly recorded, sounded obviously bad. On those recordings that were well recorded (largely jazz and other kinds of acoustic music) the midrange and treble had an uncanny bloom. What the Piega's lacked was dynamics in the bass region. The bass went fairly low and was musical, but it always lacked the slam and presence that I look for when I listen to certain kinds of recorded music. For that reason, while I tried very hard to enjoy music played through these speakers, I always felt like a material element of the picture was missing.
With respect to the B&W's while they are very revealing, the way they have been voiced results in a more forgiving result when you play something recorded in less than ideal circumstances. The speaker is very dynamic from the bass to the treble. The treble particularly is gorgeous. Imaging when it's present in the recording is fully reproduced. Bass slam when it's in the recording is all there. The midrange might give something up to the Piega's in the presence but not by much. Overall I am very pleased with the change. I wouldn't necessarily call it an upgrade, but I feel like I am getting a better view of the whole picture. I am very satisfied. |
How do the 802 Diamonds sound in comparison to the Piegas? My friend has C3LTDs which sound great, and I've always liked the 802 series... |
Suspended wood floor so the Sound Anchors may help. |
I have an order in for some Sound Anchors and some Herbie tiptoe footers.
Classe CT-600's are incoming too. So stay tuned :) |
I put my 801N many many years ago on Sound Anchors. Helped a lot. I have a listening position about 12 feet away in a fairly large room. Bass did free up from the floor. This is the 801s though. Not the 802s. |
Whats your floor makeup, hardwood, carpet? Is it a second floor, suspended, which can vibrate, or concrete slab. Stands might help the interaction of the bass from the botttom port interacting with the floor. My Matrix 802's are on dedicated stands and clean up the bass. Also my dedicated sound room floor has 9" of poured concrete. See the soundanchor site and maybe ask them questions. Read what they say about stands. It couldnt hurt if you can afford them. |
I think it's the amp. I have the same problem with my 802Ds. My Mac 6900 stuggles with the bass register. I need a bigger amp and so do you. |
I really like the look of these; I have very similar ones that came with my GamuT L5s. I was going to buy some for some Avalon speakers I was buying last summer but the seller finally decided to keep them.
http://www.oregondv.com/ |
Right with you on 1, 2 and 3 Kal :)
Simply put does anyone have what they deemed to be a positive outcome putting 802 Diamonds on tiptoes or stands like Sound Anchors. |
What do you mean by overload? If it is a power handling limitation in the amp, get bigger one. If it is a power handling limitation in the speakers, get the 800Diamonds.;-)
If it is an acoustical problem, as suggested, you need to (in order of preference) either (1) reposition speakers and/or listener, (2) treat your room with bass traps or (3) consider EQ.
Kal |
