When buying or selling are we able to communicate directly without having to "publicly post" our email or private number for the world to see?
Ever since the web format changed it's not possible, which is really dumb if you ask me. |
Polk432,
OK, I'll go ahead and post the details here to warn others -- in case it might help.
I bought a Quantum Symphony tweak about a month ago from joe0506jj. He had one negative feedback but the positives looked legit. He was shipping the item from Australia to me in Asia by EMS courier. The item arrived at the EMS office here a few days later but since I live in a remote area I could only pick it up a couple of days ago. According to the seller, since it took me a month to complain my complaint has no validity. I explained to him that I live in a remote area and it took me that time to pick it up. I didn't mention being holed up with bronchitis which added to the delay this time. I have to wait for pick-up of all the audio equipment I have shipped here so a delay of several weeks is normal for me.
The item arrived in a single flimsy cardboard box -- 1mm to 2mm thickness -- that was placed inside a thin plastic postal envelope with no padding. There were a few pieces of Styrofoam popcorn in the box but the AC adapter was sliding around freely on top of the black box. The adapter was cracked. In the ad photo there was scotch tape around the adapter and I assumed it was to keep the spec label attached to the adapter since this is an old item -- rated 7/10. But now I suspect the tape was possibly to keep the adapter from falling apart because there was an all-the-way-through crack in the adapter on the side that never appeared in ad photos -- where the two halves of the adapter join together.
Also, the jack in the back of the box was not aligning with the hole in the black box. I found this odd. I shook the box gently and the contents were rattling around inside. I took a close look. It was clear the back of the unit had been removed and replaced back-to-front. The item had been tampered with in some way. I plugged the AC adapter in the wall and the light in the front of the unit did not come on.
I emailed the seller immediately. He said the item was mint when he shipped it -- not 7/10 as stated in the ad. His response was everything from "you're kidding me" to "are you nuts". In fractured English he responded "To have someone like you insisted on $200 10year old packed in a box filled with styrofoam and yet you insisted "must be double box" You obviously have no common sense of commercial ..."
The seller started to make outlandish statements. He said because I live in a third world country that must be the reason for the damage -- the post office must have abused the package. Next he said the tampering must have been dome by EMS. I pointed out to him that the package was flimsy and that in all the years I have been receiving EMS packages I have never had a single problem. We have FedEx and DHL here and I have never had a single problem with them either. Of course, the seller needed to find SOME reason to dismiss the validity of my report. Anything he could make up would do.
When he started to write insults I filed a PayPal dispute. He upped it to a claim. That's it for now. The $246 will not kill me if I lose it. That's not the point. The point is that he is saying I am responsible for the damage and the loss and that if I had wanted it double boxed I should have asked. Does this mean sellers are not responsible for proper packaging and that the onus is on the buyer in this department?
When I ship audio equipment -- and I ship all lover the world -- I make sure to double box and to put ample foam, bubble pack and/or Styrofoam peanuts in the boxes. I never ask the buyers what they want. They sometimes ask about boxing and I let them know the item will be carefully double boxed. In all the years I have never had a single problem with buyers regarding packaging. |
Rx8man, yes, that is why I dislike the new Audiogon procedures.
Sabai, your only real recourse is negative feedback but that is quite limited in Audiogon. All that I can say is that I have had only two instances were packing was totally inadequate cause damage. One I noticed and refused it. The other I just got a broken piece and ended up repairing it enough to use. |
Tbg,
I have submitted negative feedback to Audiogon. It has not appeared. I don't imagine it ever will. I am awaiting the decision from PayPal.
I find it rather humorous that the seller rated his offering at 7/10 on Audiogon but once I submitted my report to him and PayPal he started referring to it as mint. The condition of the unit magically improved after I reported damage and tampering. |
Sabai,
Hope you get some restitution with this mess, only thing you can do in the
future is get ALL information up-front as much as entirely possible, covering
ALL necessary areas and probabilities, esp with high buck, heavy gear.
I had a horrible experience years ago shipping a pair of VAC monoblocks
that got destroyed from a FORKLIFT, went through the double boxes,
across the faceplates and crushed ALL but one KT-88, to say I was pissed
would be an understatement.
Luckily the buyer was an understanding dude and accepted the situation,
we got past it jumping through various hoops and bullshit.
Tbg,
Something needs to be implemented with this stupid email system between
members, it's ridiculous and I'm pretty darn sure people don't feel cozy
posting their private contact info publicly. |
FWIW, for larger or more fragile more costly items that are more problematic to ship safely, I usually try to hold out for a seller that is closer to me whenever possible in order to minimize shipping risks involved. Ideally, I will wait for something to come up within driving distance so I can pick up and avoid shipping totally. I know this is harder to do for those who live in more remote locations, but still a worthwhile thing to consider for those who might benefit. |
I had a recent near-death experience with a pair of speakers that arrived within a fraction of destruction. The box was dropped from a height. I was lucky -- thanks to my insistence on TRIPLE boxing.
I was not so lucky recently with another poor-packaging shipment. The Ebay seller finagled a positive feedback from me with the promise of a refund. He ended up with the positive, the goods and the money.
This time round I hope I'll be lucky -- waiting on the PayPal claim. |
Sabai, sorry to hear of your loss. You seem to know how things should be packed. I hope you can recover some of your loss. Positive is meaningless if you file a claim, at least for something sold on ebay. Please list the sellers ID, so that if he lists anything cheap I'll be the first to buy it then leave negative feedback. I'd get others to do it too. Sellers like him piss me off and ruin things for sellers that care. I am usually 99% in favor of the sellers, but not irresponsible ripoffs. Best of luck. |
Polk432,
Thank you. His ID is joe0506jj.
For me it is the principle here. I don't like to lose $246 -- but it is not the end of the world. The issue is that seller misrepresented the offering then tried to put the blame for damage on the courier -- and me. This is the kind or sleazy dealing that I do not appreciate at all.
If I am at fault in a transaction I take responsibility and I pay up. I was the seller where there was a very minor blemish on a small tweak that I had honestly not even noticed. The buyer was trying to make it into a federal case. I quickly paid up. I never let a buyer walk away unhappy. |
Polk432,
I forgot to mention that the seller is also claiming that the tampering must have been done by customs. But the package was only opened for inspection by customs when I arrived to pick it up. |
Polk432,
I just read where I will have to pay for return shipping to the seller. That means upwards of $100 not including the $46 in shipping I have already paid -- for a $200 item. I decided to end the dispute. It does not make any sense to throw good money after bad. I was caught in a similar bind a while back and PayPal requested the seller put the money back in my account. He did not follow through and there was nothing to stop him. Then PayPal reversed themselves on a technicality. The seller ended up with the goods and the money. Which could well happen again in this case. The heck with it. This is not worth all the hassle. |
Send some pot to the local police station in his area with his return address on it and a note stating that the cops will never stop him. |
Polk432,
I appreciate your sense of humor. |
Sabai, I wasn't being funny. If you win the case paypal pays you back then goes after the seller. The whole police dept. would be loaded before I got through with that seller. I wish you and/or anyone else that is in the same situation the best of luck. Sounds like payback time. |
Polk432,
I threw in the towel. The cost of shipping the item back plus the fact that I can get screwed even if I do puts an end to this. I was caught in this bind before with PayPal. They reversed themselves and the seller ended up with the returned item and the money. I'm too old to play these games anymore for a couple of hundred dollars. |
Sabai, wow, you basically hijacked Etmerritt33's thread over a couple hundred dollar tweak? Maybe next time you should just start your own thread. I mean I feel bad for anyone who gets screwed, but that's life, it happens to buyers and sellers.
If you have that much to say, start your own thread, don't hijack another's. |
Jmcgrogan2,
With all due respect, I am responding to Polk432 here. If Etmerritt33 feels I have "hijacked" his thread then I am sure he can speak up for himself. With all due respect, no one's name is attached to any thread. This is an open forum.
Your "shove-off" is noted. |
One thing sellers/shippers can do to protect themselves from rutheless shippers is to use shock detection devices called "shockwatches". These are little accelerometers that trip if the package is exposed to a "G" rating over a certain amount. Once tripped, its obvious (they cannot be reset). One type uses a ball bearing suspended by four springs in a clear plastic case. You can stick these on the inside box of a double box, for example. If a G force higher that the rating is experienced, the ball pops out of the springs and you have a jumble of parts. You want to scare the heck out of a UPS clerk, just point out the shock watches on the box.
When we used to ship very expensive semiconductor manufacturing equipment we used these, and they were indispensable for filing claims with shippers later, esp if there was "invisable" damage or no obvious damage to the packing materials.
I have also found that over-insuring tends to make shippers handle packages more carefully. Not sure fire, but insuring an amp for $1000 generally gets UPS attention because they do not wnat to come close to paying that claim. |
I recently recieved some expensive speaker stands from an up and coming speaker builder who shipped these things in a single thin ply box with about zero protection around these stands. They snapped in half where they were only glued together. Easily the most horrendous packing and build job EVER! The mfgr did nothing to help and there was $1000 in insurance paid. UPS wanted to inspect the contents before shipping but the mfgr said everything was fine and signed off on the disclosure. I was the one who needed to file a claim and then after the outcome the mfgr would go from there. There was no way I was going down this road with UPS and they already told me the mfgr signed off for all the packing. I ended up re-gluing and then screwing the pieces back together. These stands are not your ordinary stands. They hold some expensive crossover parts and the wire that is attached to the crossovers were the only thing holding these stands together. The mfgr new this would be a pain in the A$$ and took the stand that it was not his fault and to let him no what the status is after filing.
This dude has no clue how UPS works and is building and shipping speakers in the DIY market and it will always be the burden of the buyer if anything goes wrong.
I understand exactly what Etmerrit is talking about and when we take special care in shipping items we expect the same in return. Hurry up and get it out the door usually doesn't work out to well. |
interesting thread, I hope you don't mind me opening it up again. Sometimes even with superb packing the item comes damaged, what truly helps is that most of the members of this site will back there items up, buyer or seller. I sold a Jolida 102B, it was working when it left me, factory boxed etc. When it got to the buyer, tube socket 3 was flaring, The seller sent it back and I promptly refunded him. I just purchased a beautiful CDP, it was fantastically boxed in original carton, yet it is stuck on Reading... What did the seller do? Offer me my money back or he called around to see who can repair it and offered to work together to get it repaired. I shipped it to Canada for repair and we will amicably figure it out. This rarely would happen on flea of the bay. |
