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Audio Research SP20 vs LS25 and Whest Phono Pre

I am currently using an Audio Research LS25 mk I and Whest PS .30r Phono Preamp. I have been brainstorming and planning my eventual upgrade path. The Ref 3 is an obvious choice to upgrade the line stage, and that is indeed on the radar. However, a really interesting option is the ARC SP20, if it performs. By selling both my line stage and my phono stage, I can free up enough funds to potentially "upgrade" for free.

Can anyone tell me what they think about the movement from the LS25 and Whest to a single box preamp, in this case, the ARC SP20? The reviews are good, but I would value the option of fellow Audiogon members.

My 2 sources are a Lyra Delos and PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC mkII.

I recently got into headphones, and purchased a pair by Audeze, so the headphone amp on the SP20 is a nice bonus. I would get to listen to vinyl late night while the family is sleeping!

One concern I have is that my Whest is providing 60dB of gain to my Lyra Delos. Then, the ARC LS25 is providing 18dB of gain through the balanced connection. The specs on the SP20 are showing lower gain in the phono stage and lower gain in the line stage section of the preamplifier. Does this mean that the SP20 will not produce as much volume in my system? As it is now, I have to crank the volume up to the 3 o’clock position on the LS25’s volume knob to get particularly loud music with my turntable, sometimes even a hair past 3 o’clock to get to concert levels. (Amplifier is ARC VT100 mkII and speakers are Wilson Sophia 2)

I am not a gain and wattage expert - the electrical nuances of amplifier design are above my pay grade, but I am trying to learn more!

Thanks,
Mark
marktomaras
5 responses Add your response
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cleeds
5,947 posts
 
marktomaras
One concern I have is that my Whest is providing 60dB of gain to my Lyra Delos. Then, the ARC LS25 is providing 18dB of gain through the balanced connection. The specs on the SP20 are showing lower gain in the phono stage and lower gain in the line stage section of the preamplifier. Does this mean that the SP20 will not produce as much volume in my system? As it is now, I have to crank the volume up to the 3 o’clock position on the LS25’s volume knob to get particularly loud music with my turntable, sometimes even a hair past 3 o’clock to get to concert levels.
The position of the volume control for any given output level is determined as much by the taper of the control itself as it is the gain of the preamplifier. So long as a preamp has sufficient gain to drive your amplifier to full output, the actual position of the volume control  is irrelevant. It looks like the SP20 does have a lower phono gain than the Whest, and this will limit your choice of phono cartridges to those with output high enough to drive it but, with 58 dB of gain, the SP20 has pretty high gain on the phono section.

As always, the best advice is to try the SP20 in your system before purchase. A typical ARC dealer will be happy to let you do that.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,794 posts
 
Some of the Audeze headphones require a bit of power; if you have one of those models you'll probably want a headphone power amp for them.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
As always, the best advice is to try the SP20 in your system before purchase. A typical ARC dealer will be happy to let you do that.

+1, I agree with @cleeds  advice about trial, if possible.

Personally, I would have to hear it in my own system to believe it to be as good as some say. I have not had much luck with full function preamps.

I like the idea of saving money and space theoretically, but I have been disappointed in the internal phono stages of the few that I have tried (Cary, VAC, BAT to name a few).
lostbears's avatar
lostbears
538 posts
 

 The SP20 would be an upgrade over the LS25 but not one I would make. I have spent a bit of time with both the LS25 and LS25 mk2. I have also heard the SP20 quite a few times at my dealer, I was not impressed. The Ref 3 would be a much better upgrade. If you want to make a small move that will have an big impact. You could look for a used LS25 mk2. I owned one for many years and it is still one of my favorite ARC preamps. Much better than the original LS25. But a Ref 3 would be my first choice.  

I have not heard the Whest phono preamp. But I am very fond of the Fostgate Signature phono stage especially for what they sell for used. Highly adjustable for both MM and MC. An excellent sounding phono stage that you can easily roll tubes with. I still kept mine even after I got my ARC Ref Phono 2se.



 
amaglioc's avatar
amaglioc
30 posts
 
I'm approaching the start of my third year with an SP20 and enjoy it very much. Cartridge matching was a challenge with that 58dB fixed gain. I spoke with ARC directly and was told to stay above the .5mv level, which led me to the Ortofon Cadenza Blue I have now on my VPI Prime. Your Delos is .6mv, I believe, which is really perfect for the SP20 phono stage.

You might have turn increase the volume setting a little from your current setup, but you won’t suffer any noise floor problems. It’s a very quiet component. My dealer wanted to sell me a Linn LP12 with that cartridge they had just released in the fall of 2015. It was like .25mv—well below the recommended ARC matching specs. But during our demonstration there was still almost no discernible noise from the phono stage.
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