Gentlemen,
Thought I should mention that the preamp is outstanding! I have about 35 hours playing time and wanted to thank all on the board for sharing their impressions about this wonderful preamp.
I wanted to contribute this information to those who are looking in and for us "Component USA Clubers". I was about to purchase Amperex tubes to replace the Siemens since I found them to be on the thin side. If your taste is akin to this then keep trucking with the Siemens. I am no longer searching for any tubes after I did a semi-cryo treatment on the TP 2.0. The sound is on another level toward 'organic' with tons of flavor in the midrange and a beautiful soundstage that ooozes 'synergy'.
In my opinion the freeze treatment enhanced the break in period of this player and it will be interesting to see what additional improvements is on the Horizon LOL!
Lou
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Ahh, the joy and expense of tube rolling... |
Yes, I have looked through the tubes threads at Asylum and found them helpful. Victor is very sincere in his conviction that the cc'a's and, short of that, the gray plate Siemens are best in the TP 2.0. And he is very knowledgable and dedicted to the search for "absolute sound" and an expert in the TP 2.0. Yet, from what I hear that the Amperexs can give, they sound intriguing as well. Beside musical perferences (I want to tune my system to awesome classical, though I listen to other genres as well), equipment, and room synergy, you have the personal taste mentioned. Given all this there is plenty of room to experiment. To paraphrase "so many tubes, so little time". |
Joe, just a brief while back I was very "green" about tubes. I learned quite a bit about them in general from reading through the Tube Asylum on the Audio Asylum website. I still go through some of these threads from time to time to refresh my memory. One of the things I found out about tubes is that the best ones, which are usually NOS( but not all) are like a seasoning to the circuitry. It's amazing how so many audiophiles have so many different preferences in sound. Bottom line is what sounds best to you. There is no one best particular tube. IMHO |
Thanks Grannyring, appreciate the input, I will try them. |
Sherod. Yes the fellow audiogoner is happy to take the cca's back. But thanks for the tip. Being new to tubes the variety of choices within just the Siemens and Amperex family, pricing, and policies for audition are a bit daunting. But I am just letting the learning curve happen while enjoying the music. My wife has never seen me taking the top on and off so much with a piece of equipment and she is intrigued (have to keep assuring her that it isn't broken and I havent lost my mind. lol)
Grannyring - thank you for the description of the Amperex. I think I will have to listen to some, given I have a fully ss system as well. |
Rx8man,
The Amperex Bugle Boy's are more full sounding with warmer mids and a larger soundstage. Just more musical to my ears and better suited for a digital system with any component that may be a tad HOT.
Bill |
Welcome Rob to the most exclusive pre amp club in town.Having said that, what "capable" pre amp did the AH replace.Thumbs up on Maggies. |
Joe, if you paid a premium for those Cca's, send them back to the dealer for a replacement or refund. I have read that tube dampers can sometimes over-damp a system. |
Joe, try the Amperex out. I'm anxious to hear your impressions. Also, Victor gave me the go ahead to post his e-mail regarding phase:
Hello Sherod,
Many preamps and many amps reverse the polarity. This becomes a problem only when the preamp does, as Joseph's does, and the amp does not. This issue surfaced only recently when Cedar got a new amp and unlike his previous one, it did not reverse polarity. Joseph had never mentioned this matter to me before or I would have added it to the owner's manual and the specs.. I will be sending out a notice to all past customers on this matter when Joseph returns and sends me all their email addresses..
Sometimes the amp manufacturer indicates this fact and sometimes the manufacturer does not. I recently revised the owner's manual to note this fact and will add it to the specs in the ads shortly.
The simplest way to tell is to reverse the polarity of your two speakers. When a system is out of phase, the sound will appear a little flat; imaging will also wander rather than snap into focus. On most quality systems, it is not hard to tell. a minute's listening will disclose whether you are in or out of phase.
I suggest that you reverse the polarity of your speaker leads and see what happens: if the sound seems dull and less alive and imaging wanders or is ill-defined, then you are out of phase.
Best regards,
Victor |
Welcome Rhanson. Enjoyed your sense of humor in your post. Are you willing to share what pre you replaced, on or off post? Interested that you like the Amperex.
Sherod, The Siemens cca's I tried in position 1&3 were microphonic in my system. I tried Herbies tube dampers and they seemed to dramatically overdampen the sound and put me from row 4 concert hall to row 14.
I am leaning next to trying a matched quad of NOS gray plate early 60's Siemens E88cc's, but have not ruled out Amperex yet. |
Not sure why one system does not require cable switching and another does. The preamp does invert phase and my system is out of phase unless I reverse polarity on the speakers. I just confirmed this on my test CD.
Unless another piece of gear inverts phase in the same system one must reverse polarity - right?
Bill |
Here's one thread that gives some info. Do a search under "phase inversion" or "phase". Other words to look at are "inverse polarity", "polarity" and "reverse polarity"
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1143621906&read&keyw&zzphase=inversion |
Hey Rob,
Glad you joined, welcome here !! |
Welcome, Rhanson to the TP-2.0 preamp club. I just received a detailed explanation regarding the phase from Victor. I asked him if I could post the explanation on this thread and am awaiting his reply. I just reversed my speaker leads and the sound became out of phase, so the standard hook-up is in phase for my system. It might be different for others. Victor's explanation talks about this issue. Don't worry, because I just did a detailed search on the threads discussing phase and there is a lot of information. I'll find the thread that helped me a lot in understanding this phenomena. If you read the posts, you'll see that a lot of studios record the songs out of phase. |
Rgd,
>> Curious - did you reverse your speaker leads???
As I understand it, I don't have to. According to Spectron, the remote sense cables take care of that.
Of course, I'm going to try it to see if there's any difference.
Rob |
Rob, welcome to this thread and tothe club. Curious - did you reverse your speaker leads??? |
Okay... I'm in.
I confess: I'm the mystery "new member" of the Audio Horizons club. It fell to me to audition the incredible TP 2.0 MK2.
Actually, after dealing with an amp repair issue for over a month, I finally had a chance to listen to Joseph's TP 2.0n preamp.
It only took two days - one great listening session - to know that it was a slam-dunk for the TP 2.0n. A high WAF for the sonic improvement sealed the deal. The heck with the other 28 days of auditioning... I've sent my check in already.
I started with Joseph's stock EH tubes. A good friend who also owns a TP 2.0 was "kind" enough to let me try a very nice set of Amperex PQ 6922s. "Kind," in that I just HAD to have those tubes, boosting the overall layout for the pre.
No big deal at all. This things sings!
I'm running an Resolution Audio Opus 21 CDP, the TP 2.0n on Walker Valid Points, Spectron Musician II Class-D amp, Magnepan 3.3/R speakers with MYE stands. Joseph's Transparency powers the TP, with a mix of Lab 1, Synergistic, and DCCA PCs. Speaker cables are remote-sense from DH Labs.
Thanks to all on this thread. This discussion is what made me want to try the TP 2.0, even though I already had a VERY capable pre-amp.
Best,
Rob |
Grannyring,
What characteristics do you like better about the Ampy B.B.s ? |
Yup, I have those also. I like the Amperex, Bugle Boy's better as an FYI!
Bill |
Here's another stumper :
I have the Siemens ECC88 with the *White Falcon* logo, non-gold pins.
Does anyone have these in their preamps ?
Joseph must have a special connection (possibly overseas) ?
I can't locate these anywhere else, Googled it. |
Goodness, glad to hear another here has had the same experience regarding this preamp inverting phase. Ok, all owners go home and reverse polarity on your speakers and see for yourself. I also have that wonderful Stereophile test CD which tests for absolute phase.
Have fun! Your preamps may sound even better with this small tweek - plus it's free!
Another question. Does his DAC invert phase?? I also own the DAC and never asked. Oh my.
Bill |
I am 99.9% sure that it is phase inverting as Victor had me turn my speaker leads around and I have non-inverting amp. Just wanted to be the 200th poster here :) Happy bicentential eveyone! |
I asked Mr. Chow if the preamp inverted phase when I was a/b'ing his preamp vs. my then CJ LS16 which does invert phase. He told me it did invert phase. I played with my speaker connections and changed polarity to confirm his comments.
His English is hard to follow and I may have heard him wrong. I will wait on Sherod's response also. Did not mean to confuse as I thought this point was common knowledge.
Bill |
Yes, Rgd, I have the same thought. I just e-mailed Victor about this and am waiting for a reply. |
please confirm that the current preamp does in fact invert phase as there is no mention of this fact in both the ads here or on the website... |
The new preamp will also have upgraded or "improved" cosmetics. I feel the current one looks just fine. The remote option will add a phase inverting button. His preamp does invert phase for any new folks on this thread.
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I just got an e-mail from Victor explaining the new preamp. It will be a combo linestage/phono preamp, available sometime in May. It will also be available as an add-on module for the current TP 2.0 users or as a separate phono only. Just as I had imagined. I don't think there is pricing yet. So, not to worry, current preamp owners. Joseph is simply expanding his "Horizons"; pun intended. |
By the way, Joe. How are those Siemens CCa tubes sounding at this stage of evaluating? |
Well,Joe, to my knowledge, you are the first to mention this new version of Joseph's preamp. I have been in frequent contact with Victor and the only mention of a preamp is a phono unit that is still in the evaluation stage. Perhaps this is the new preamp that you mention. As you know, the current TP 2.0 versions are all line stages only, so naturally one with a phono would be higher priced. If the phono is offered as a separate phono-only, then this would be a new product for all with line stages who want to expand to phono as well. I also would imagine that if there are any upgrades available that would enhance the sound of the current preamps, Victor would make an announcement and include it in their web site. I would also assume that perhaps current owners would possibly have an opportunity for upgrades before any new versions were announced to the general public. Joseph and Victor are both very fair in dealing with their current customer base. |
Sorry, Victor is correct - not Vincent.
Yes, when I heard this news I estimated the chances of any of you parting with your TP 2.0's when the new one came out, so as to get a bargin used unit but I just couldn't wait to hear what you were all so excited about. I am glad that I didn't wait - life is short and I have had a month of delightful music. I figure whatever revisions are made, that our original 2.0's will be collector's items. |
Gammajo, will it be designated the secret MK2 or MK2.5 ??
Inquiring minds want to know, I'm an upgrade idiot. L.O.L.
I'm lowering my shelf tonight. HA !!
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Joe, I think you meant to say Victor, not Vincent, right? |
Best I know Joseph is planning a new preamp sometime after April 1, chiefly in response to people wanting a little slimmer design (less height). He has made some changes in the circuit that serve to lower the noise floor a bit more and has been incorporating some of these changes in the more recent preamps he has sent out, to the extent that he could within the old design. The new unit is projected to cost a bit more. This is third hand information from what I have understood when buying my preamp about a month ago from Vincent. Please dont take my word on this as gospel but talk to Vincent for further clarification. BTW Great joke Rx8man! You had us going. |
Thanks Rx8man. I was getting a little nervous there. I have a feeling that unless technology dramatically advances in key areas, Joseph won't be building preamps that go through continous upgrades. |
Sherod, I was just kidding, nothing blows our preamps away ! |
Huh? What Mk II? What changes did Joseph make without telling the rest of us? |
I think the "new member" aquired the secret TP 2.0 MK2, it "blows our old units" away !!
He told me he stayed up all night listening. |
I'm not sure if any TP-2.0 owner or potential owner is interested, but Joseph has just completed a prototype of a phono preamplifier. He and Victor are in the process of evaluating. That's all I know at this point. Contact Victor or Joseph for more details. |
What version of the T.P. 2.0 did he acquire. |
*Another member* will be joining in our "club" shortly.
He just recieved his TP 2.0 a few days ago and is letting it "settle-in" before giving his impressions.
Our thread will be a year old in a couple weeks ! |
Joe, what I heard, especially when putting in the Siemens CCa tubes in location 1 & 3 was a purer tonality of instruments. Pianos took on a more natural timber, with improved dynamics. Soundstage opened up and instrument placement seemed more exact. All instruments and human vocals just took on a more natural "aliveness" sound. The preamp is so precise that changing interconnects and power cords are easily discernable for fine-tuning the sound to please your ears. You are right, though, to listen to recordings that you are most intimate with to better gauge the differences. |
Joe, if your NOS Siemens tubes are indeed new, you'll need to allow another 24 hrs. or so for the new tubes to settle in. Please let us know what your impressions are. |
I'll let you all in on the tweak I'm going to do. It's not really a secret. I am going to try the V-Cap OIMP, oil-impregnated cap in place of the upgrade Hovlands that Joseph puts in as output caps in his upgrades. Out of curiosity, I asked Joseph if he had tried it and due to long break-in periods and cost, Joseph didn't have a chance to evaluate it, so I asked him if I could give it a try. He gave me the go ahead. If the cap seems that it has potential or proves overall superiority to the Hovland( by the way, a very nice sounding cap in Joseph's circuitry) Joseph could consider it as another upgrade option. Being a tweaker and curious about the V-cap's sonics, I couldn't resist hearing it in the preamp. I just ordered the V-Caps, so it will be a few days before I receive them and the caps will need an additional 200 hours of break-in to realize their potential. I'll give time to time impressions on this thread. http://www.v-cap.com/oilcapacitors.html |
My Siemens CCa's for #1&3 and gray plate early 60s 88cc's for 2&4, plus Herbies tubes dampers were installed today. I am ready to do some fun tube comparing. As I am new to tube rolling and I expect the diffences to be subtle, do any of you have suggestions on what to listen for, what music to use, how to AB compare etc?
My plan so far is to let them warm up for a hour but given they are all used tubes, start the project without a major breakin period. Also to use pieces like solo flute to check the body and harmonics of notes, and to use my other standard musical selections that I employ for comparing equipment. Any other hints, specific to tubes? Thanks. Joe |
La45 I noticed improvements as mentioned in the first few days. But I also recommend leaving it on 24/7 playing a continuous CD source with amp off. After one week of this (168 hours) I noticed another leap in performance - thats when the big grin: "I know with certitude that I am keeping this preamp and it was worth every penny" happened for me. |
Sherod
I love mysteries. I am guessing that he approved adding a bunch of damping material to the chassis. Any one else have a guess? |
Sherod,
Look forward to any "improvements" you or anyone can offer. This is alot of fun. |
I am currently using a McCormack UDP-1 universal player and mostly listening to my Joseph Chow modified Citation Eighteen tuner. I'm presently experimenting with power cords on my monoblocks. I will be doing an interesting tweak on the preamp soon, so I'll let everyone in when it is finished. Joseph has approved of this experimental tweak, so it will be an interesting experiment. Stay tuned for updates. |
Hi Sherod,
Great advice. I will delay making any changes (keeping all current gear in place in the room) until the preamp fully breaks in. It does sound clean and focused after 6 hours so its good to hear that it will smooth itself out after 48 hours.
May I ask what is your front end source?
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