Audio Horizons TP 2.0 Preamplifier

Ouch! You beat me to it, Pat. I guess you'll have to start a new thread and get ready for the flames. (o:

Thanks, Gammajo. I appreciate the open invitation. Let's see how things go for me until Fall.

Tvad,
Do the Lessloss power cords use some type of filtering in them? I'm curious why the company recommends plugging them directly into the wall.

Lak, are you putting together another system? If it's to compare to or replace your ARC Ref 3, then that would be an interesting comparison.

You've got a good memory, Goldeneraguy. Good idea...every time I play the Drifters White Christmas, it does put me in a good mood.

Bill,
That's great that Joseph was able to upgrade your preamp that quickly. I very much look forward to hearing your impressions.

Here's an interesting thread I started recently in another forum regarding the Siemens CCa tubes:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/191763.html

Blindman, interesting suggestion. I also have wondered the same thing. Maybe Victor and Joseph can jump into this thread and give their opinion.

Hi Gamecock. I'm curious what amplifier and speakers you are using with the TP 2.0 preamp? I am considering strongly Mr. Chow's preamp and I'm then going to buy a tube amp to match it for driving my Reference 3A Dulcet mini-monitors. Thanks, Sherod

I can't vouch for Joseph's new product line(although I'm considering his TP 2.0), but Mr. Chow recently turned my sow's ear 1972 Citation 14 tuner into a remarkable silk purse. I am in awe of how transformed musically this tuner has become. It is truly world class now. This man, Joseph Chow, works magic on tuners. I'm a very happy camper.

Joseph's new amps sound appealing. If and when you buy them, a brief review would be appreciated. In the meantime, I am interested in his TP 2.0 preamp. It is difficult to understand how this less than $2000.00 preamp can blow away a $16,000.00 preamp like the First Sound; that's a $14,000.00 price difference. I had a brief e-mail communication with Victor, Joseph's translator and marketing man, and Victor told me that the TP 2.0 comes with stock Electro Harmonix 6922's and highly recommended upgrading them myself should I decide to keep the preamp with some good NOS 6922 like Siemens E88CC. Gamecock, have you upgraded the 6922 tubes in your preamp? I'm curious what power cord you use on it as well since Victor was pushing Joseph's on me to buy along with the preamp. Thanks for the input. I hate to bother you as I can try the preamp on my own with the knowledge that they offer a 30 day money-back return policy, which is kind of rare in today's market.

I just ordered the TP 2.0n preampifier( with the upgraded Hovland caps) and should receive it in a few days. I also ordered the new VAC Auricle Musicblocs to drive my Dulcet speakers. I'll keep you posted on its performance. Thanks for all your personal feedback on your systems gentlemen.I would also like to mention that Victor has been unbelievable in answering some of my questions. Very prompt responses with incredibly detailed and lengthy replies. I am very impressed with Victor's professionalism and the time and consideration he has given me.

RX8man,

What preamp did the TP 2.0 replace in your system?

I have read that the Counterpoint SA-5000A was considered one of the best when introduced, Very expensive as well. Peter Moncrieff of IAR praised it very highly. The TP-2.0 must be pretty special. I can't wait to get mine. I've already ordered some NOS Siemens E188CC tubes to pop in it for even better sonics. Happy Listening. By the way, have you tried any of Joseph's cables? I just got in a few days ago his Premium power cord and I have to be honest, it's pretty amazing.

I would like to give a brief initial impression of the Audio Horizons TP 2.0n preamp. I have the "n" upgrade, which is $250.00. This includes the better, larger Hovland caps and some further quieting in the power supply. I just got my amps in yesterday, so I was only able to hook up the preamp this morning, in fact, just an hour ago, so the preamp and rest of the system haven't even broken in. It takes at least 60 hours for the preamp to fully break-in. The overall sound at this initial juncture, is very good. My system sounds very musical with a pure and clean presentation. I am very impressed with just this initial listening. My next update will be sometime next week after full break in. My entire system is brand new to to me. It currently consists of:

Amp: VAC Auricle Mono Musicblocs
Preamp: Audio Horizons TP 2.0n
Speaker: Reference 3A Dulcet mini-monitors w/ Sound Anchor stands
Speaker cables: PS Audio Extreme Reference(newest version)
Interconnects: Von Gaylord Chinchilla and Legend VI
Power cords: Mix of Electraglide and Audio Horizon

Well, Grant, I can't. They are new to me in that I haven't heard them all together. The units themselves are all broken in( including cables) with the exception of the preamp,which is brand new. So I can't say that the preamp sounds good in and of itself and I don't have another preamp to pop in and do a comparison to eliminate preamps, but the overall sound is much better than I previously had( which by the way consisted of a Stratos Extreme amp). It's probably a sum of its parts thing. All I know is that at this point, whatever the 2.0n preamp is contributing, it's certainly making some very nice sounding music. Thanks for pointing that out, Grant, with all due respect.

I forgot to mention that my sources for listening are the McCormack UDP-1 universal player and a highly modded H/K Citation 18 tuner. No phono at this time. I sold my Linn Sondek a few years ago(dumb mistake), but I do have a very extensive LP collection that counts in the hundreds. Once system has fully broken in, I'll be experimenting with cabling to fine tune the sound. Being a cable freak, I have tons of cabling to experiment with.

Well folks. I know you're all waiting in anticipation on an update on the sound of my new Audio Horizons 2.0n preamp. You're going to have to wait a bit longer, because I just popped in some NOS Siemens Cca tubes and it needs some further play time now to break in more. I can say that this preamp, in conjunction with the other components, is sounding very musical and I'm really enjoying the music. This is by far the best-sounding system I've ever put together on a decent budget without breaking the bank. I am sending my main tuner( a primary source of listening for me) to Joseph Chow for a slight mod next week. I'm currently experimenting with a variety of cabling to further fine-tune my system. So far, my speaker cable of choice is the AZ Satori, but by next week, I'm going to put the PS Audio Reference back in for a final decision. I'm also going to experiment with a few power cords on the preamp over the weekend to get the right sound I'm looking for. I just ordered some NOS E82cc(12au7), Mullard and Siemens, to put in my mono amps for some fun tube rolling. My goal is within the next few weeks to have the system fine-tuned where everything clicks in. Then I'm going to post my virtual system and enjoy the music for a while. I'm very pleased with the service and communication that Victor and Joseph have given me. Victor actually rewired my power outlets at no charge. This is such a fun hobby! (~:

Thanks, Cedar, for the recommendation on Joseph's speaker cables. I intend to try them, but I currently have three sets of speaker cables that I'm trying to narrow down to only one that I like the best and then I will order a set of Joseph's to do a final comparison. I also have his interconnects on my list to try, but same thing currently having several interconnects to find the best for comparison to Joseph's. I do have both Joseph's power cords and they are both in my main and 2nd systems. I have a lot of projects planned. My 1st is to have Joseph fine-tune my main tuner. I'm glad that you are enjoying Joseph's products. Keep in touch.

I have found that either I have defective Siemens E188CC tubes or they don't work well in tube placement 1 and 3 in the 2.0 preamp. The Siemens Cca and E88CC sound much better there.

Thanks for the info Cedar. I look forward to the TP 2.0 preamp evaluation in other systems. Mine is sounding very nice right now. I think I've got the right mix of NOS Siemens E88cc tubes in it. I'm curious what sonic differences the upgraded transformers make compared to the stock ones.

Yes, Grant. That's what I have read as well. There are very subtle differences between the Cca and E88CC, but the E188CC sounds way off, a bit down in volume and disjointed soundstage, almost like an out-of-phase sound. I bought these on Ebay. Too bad we've already exchanged positive feedback, and the guy's in Germany. On Ebay, you take your chances and this time I lost. This should be a lesson to buy directly from qualified tube dealers.

I too am very pleased with the Tp 2.0 preamp. Joseph Chow is extremely gifted. I have only had the preamp for a little over two weeks, but each day it seems to get better. The clarity, transparency, dynamics, harmonics, tonal balance,timbre,soundstage,presentation of voices,etc. is the best I have ever experienced with any preamp, mostly solid state. I fell in love with the sound of tubes when I was a young man and it looks like I'll stay with tubes now until I'm an old man. The preamp is so revealing that it very easily shows both the weaknesses and strengths of the cables and power cords used with it. I am so pleased with Joseph's work that I'm sending my last tuner to him to have him work his magic on it. This tuner, a Citation 18, was recently modded by a very reputable tuner modifier, and in this version, it pales in comparison to the Citation 14 tuner that Joseph modded for me last month. I'm still undecided on Joseph's power cords. I am having very good results, however, with his budget Premium cord on my tuner. I just got in some older and supposedly better e88cc tubes that I'm going to drop into the preamp for evaluation, but I'm so happy with the present sound that I've procrastinated doing it. Stay tuned for more developments...

Mine is the n version which has the added noise filter on the power supply and the upgraded Hovland caps. Victor tried to talk me into the balanced mode, but I decided to hold off on that as my monoblocs are unbalanced. I did upgrade the e88cc tubes to Siemens, early 60's, which made a nice improvement.

Grant,
I'm sure that if you wanted to try a version of the TP 2.0 preamp Joseph would be happy to include a tape loop. Contact Victor at Vcomerchero@aol.com.

I'm curious if anyone has had a chance to compare the Tp 2.0 preamp to one of the much talked about preamps from down under, the Supratek.

I gave the wrong e-mail address for Victor in above post. It's actually Vcomerchero@sbcglobal.net

Cedar,
I've definitely got the "B" upgrade on my "wish" list. I'm so happy with the "n" version that I don't know if my ears can handle the "B" upgrade (LOL). I'm glad you're enjoying your preamp.

Hey Rx8man,
Good to hear from you. I look forward to seeing the pictures of the new lid for your preamp. I'm enjoying my TP 2.0n more everyday. It's very musical and natural. I just got in a pair of Joseph's Transparent interconnects and although it's been only a few days in the system, so far I'm pretty impressed. It is very natural sounding with excellent dynamics.

I'm still enjoying mine very much(TP-2.0n). I recently upgraded its power cord and went with the ultra-expensive Siemens CCa tubes. Both brought the sound to a new level of sonic bliss for me. I don't plan on selling mine any time in the near future. Joseph offers a money back guaranty, so what do you have to lose by giving it a try?

Grammajo,

I would recommend that you discuss your needs with Victor Comanchero, Joseph's sale's rep and confidante. Victor is very knowledgeble and helpful and has always answered all my e-mails with great detail. I would have possibly upgraded to the balanced transformer, however, my amps don't have balanced inputs at this time, but I can get them upgraded anytime. My amps are the VAC Musicbloc monoblocks and they mate extremely well with the TP-2.0n preamp. Joseph and Victor might be familiar with your amp so they can suggest which version of the preamp would best suit your needs. I have a feeling that once you hear this preamp after its break-in period, you'll be very pleased with it's wonderful musicality.

Markwatkiss,
I'm glad to see that you are enjoying your TP 2.0 preamp. To state confidently that it is sonically superior to the Aesthetix Calypso is high praise indeed as the Calypso is highly revered in the audiophile community. Yes, I also don't mind it not having a remote because I too need to take the time to open up that bottle of wine. Cheers and happy listening.

I agree with Cedar. It does sound excellent right after turn-on. As to how long the circuit takes to stabilize, I'm not sure. I doubt very long. There are other variables at play, AC, amp and source warm-up, etc. Bottom line, this preamp reproduces what is reproduced very convincingly.

Congratulations Joe. I hope you enjoy it as much as the current owners do. Let us know how it works out for you.

Maybe this thread will surpass the Supratek thread in posts and longevity.

FYI, the magic of Joseph's preamp really didn't click in until I replaced tubes location one and three with 1960 Siemens grey plate CCa tubes. These particular tubes are rare and very expensive, but I heard a significant difference after trying various other Siemens CCa and E88cc versions. Various Amperex, Valvo,etc. versions need not apply. I think that Siemens borrowed a few Elves from Mullard to make this particular version CCa because the music it makes is truly "magical". IMHO and YMMV.

Ralph, I'm not sure what you are talking about regarding the chassis ground. I am plugged directly into the wall outlet and my preamp is dead quiet. Do you still have a hum problem?
Joe, glad to see that you have received your preamp. I am anxious to hear your evaluation. The preamp will take a couple of days, however, to break in to achieve its smooth character. I definitely recommend the best power cord for it. Interesting that you got a hum on RCA. I only have the single RCA outputs and never had a hum. Must be a system dependency issue.

Hey Joe and Ralph! Any preliminary thoughts on how your new preamps sound?

Victor is usually very quick to respond to emails. He might be travelling. I'm sure that you'll hear from him soon. There are times that he travels and sometimes might take a day or so before he gets back with you, but he will because he's very considerate and concerned. By the way, I'm in agreement with Grannyring as to the sheer musicality and naturalness of the preamp. I only have the 2.0n, but I'm very content with the preamp.

Joe,
You touched on what the preamp does for me. "Captivating" is a nice descriptive word.

I also agree with RX8man in that both micro and macro dynamics are superb. One of the many attributes that makes Joseph's preamp so "captivating".

It's been mentioned before in various threads that Joseph can work wonders with older, as well as newer, tuners. If you have an older,analog tuner, for @ $300.00 Joseph can turn it into one of your favorite used sources. I find myself listening to my local NPR college station quite often into the late hours.

Joe,
Both Victor and Joseph are very helpful in recommending certain vintage tuners. Joseph might have a few in stock that he has for sale. Check with Victor when you're ready.
Also, the louder and softer sound effects that you hear with familiar music are the macro amd micro dynamics discussed which the preamp excels at.

Grannyring,

From what I recall in an e-mail with Victor, I believe Joseph might be working on a tube amp. I also don't have the remote and don't have any desire to add one in the near future. I don't mind getting up to adjust the volume.

Rgd,
Victor can recommend some good dealers for you. Joseph and Victor both prefer the sound of Siemens CCa in this preamp, however, one owner that gave a testimonial in Joseph's web site liked some NOS Amperex. The preamp comes stock with EH( Electro Harmonix) tubes, which sound very good in Joseph's excellent circuit. Joseph's upgrade is, I believe, a 70's Siemens E88cc, which will give you a little better sonic picture. The ultimate tube for this preamp is an early 60's Siemens CCa, but they are getting rarer and very expensive. One nice thing to consider is that there are only four tubes in the preamp, and basically only two of them which are fairly critical in the audio signal path( tube locations 1 and 3 ). I was able to find a good pair of Siemens Cca for these locations and am using some late 60's,early 70's Siemens E88cc in locations 2 and 4. My recommendation is that when you get your new preamp, allow it to warm up for a few days to break in the preamp and get an idea of how it sounds in your system. You might just like it so much with the stock tubes that upgrading might become an alternative that you can wait on for a while. I lived with my stock preamp very happily for a few months before I got the urge to try some upgraded tubes in location 1 and 3. I hope you enjoy the preamp as well as I do. Happy Listening.

Grannyring, here's who I bought mine from:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstwek&1176108940

I agree with Gammajo. The stock tubes in the preamp are very good and provide wonderful musicality. The upgraded tubes do make an improvement, but depending on the resolution of the rest of your system, the difference isn't huge. For me, the early 60's Siemens grey plate CCa tubes just fine-tuned the overall sound to give me the ultimate tone and timber of instruments. The preamp is so transparent that cable and power cord additions can clearly be heard. I recommend that you start out with the stock tubes, or Joseph's upgraded Siemens, then live with and enjoy the sound for a while. Experiment with tweaking the cables, power cords, and room acoustics until you've extracted the best sound possible. Then find a hopefully good deal on the early Siemens CCa( preferably in tube locations 1 and 3) and you'll hear the magic of Joseph's preamp more clearly. Enjoy the journey and happy listening.

By the way, the best analog interconnects that I've ever found and unfortunately they aren't well known, are the silly sounding Chinchilla interconnects from Von Gaylord Audio. They are expensive and a used pair are rare( I'm looking for one more pair for my Cd player if anyone has some for sale)The best power cord so far that I've found to mate with my preamp is the Electraglide Epiphany X. Here is a review of the Chinchilla interconnects:

http://iar-80.com/page90.html

I just thought that while I was on a roll tonight, I'd put in an addendum that as good as Joseph's preamp is, his vintage tuner upgrades are equally impressive. If by sheer luck that any Audiogon members happen to live in an area where they have a good NPR( National Public radio) station which is minimally compressed, have a decent antenna, and if you like some really great live jazz and classical broadcasts, and you just happen to have an old decent tuner either sitting idly in your system or gathering dust in your closet, send it to Joseph for his $350.00 refurbishing and be prepared to have an enlightening experience and a new regular source to listen to. Until I find another Chinchilla for my cd player, I've been staying up many late night hours enjoying my Joseph-tweaked 1977 Citation Eighteen tuner.

Good analogy, LA45. Savor the preamp and enjoy the music.