Audio Horizons TP 2.0 Preamplifier

Joe, $1,250 for a matched quad is outrageous. I would be hesitant to maybe pay half that price. Law of supply and demand at work here. Apparently some people with deep pockets are willing to pay this price. Thankfully I was able to get a pair for much less.

Frankg,

I have seen them listed both ways. Evidently this has something to do with the Russian alphabet where the letter H is represented in the English alphabet as an N. Great tubes for the price nonetheless.

Sherod
Thanks for the cca reference. I inquired and he wants $1,250 USD for a quad matched within 5%. Mark, keep us posted on your Russian tubes.
I have now compared two seperate sets of early cca Siemens, to Telefunkens, early Siemens E88cc, and Amperex PQ white labels and feel strongly that the cca's were significantly better than the rest with finer inner detail, ability to distinguish timber, control, finese, and a more holgraphich sound stage with better air around instruments. The other three types were all much better than the stock EH and had some nice points as well with the early Telefunkens coming in second in my preference.

Clio09. I believe it's the 6H23P. There are a couple other russian 6922's but the 6H23P is the highest military grade. I just ordered a cyro'd matched pair of this tube from tubeman.com. He claims they're much improved with the cryo treatment.
I also just received a matched quad of NOS 6H30P-DR's. I don't know alot about tubes but I just happened to research these two tubes this past week.
Frank

Thanx for your concern everyone,awaiting response from Joseph and company.

The Russian tube that is a replacement for the 6922/6DJ8 is the 6N23P, which is an excellent tube and well worth trying. I don't own this preamp but I have used this tube in a Music Reference RM-9 as a replacement driver for NOS Siemens and I was completely surprised at how well this tube sounded.

I agree with Frank, Mark. Please double-check with Joseph. I recall reading about the Russian 6H30 tube and it draws almost three times the filament current as a 6922 and nearly twice the plate voltage.

Markwatkiss. CAUTION! Those are not replacements for a 6922 family tube. The 6H30 is the russian super tube that BAT first brought to the U.S.A. Now ARC uses them as well in their Ref. 3 preamp. Better check with Joesph if they will work in his circuit or you may damage your preamp.
Frank

It's show and tell.After several listening sessions,the most recent with a particularly fine bottle of Petite Syrah, I can,without doubt say that the quad of tubes I purchased from a fellow audiophile was the best I have heard in the AH.They are NOS of Russian origin.Etched on the tube are the numbers/letters 6H30,after the O there is an inverted U.There are no other markings to assist in identification of the brand.They came to me by way of the audiophile friend who acquired them from a distributor for KR products.It's all hush hush,but that just gets the juices flowing right.
To place things in perspective,the improvements over the Siemen/Halske quad were subtle.It was not emotionally immediate like going from the stock EH's to the Siemens.
There is an extra level of detail which provides a richer more 3 dimensional musical experience.It's like another layer of music was exposed with a presence and aliveness that is seductive.To summarize there is a complete sense of poise to the music,not that there wasn't before,its just a wee bit finer.And that's all I know.

Sorry for the double post. It was late and I wasn't paying attention. Here is the thread that talked about this tube dealer:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/193507.html

Here's a new web site I found with a supplier of some Siemens CCa tubes:

http://www.tangotubes.com/

Here's the thread that lead me to this web site:

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/messages/193507.html

Here's a new web site I found with a supplier of some Siemens CCa tubes:

http://www.tangotubes.com/

I'll include a vial of "chill-pills" with every kit !

Pat,
You're going to give Joseph a nervous breakdown with this "Outer Limits" mod.

I'll give you a "hint" of the mod.

It involves careful removal and replacement of the electricalinator under the coveringitallunator next to the noisenomoreulator.

Rx8man,

Oh, brother... not again. {g}

Does it involve disassembling the unit as with the floating board tweak? That took a bit of doing to get everyting lined up.

(Not complaining, though. It sounds great.)

Rob

Dadgummit, Pat. Just when I thought you couldn't tweak this preamp anymore, your genius comes back to haunt us once again. Keep up the good work.

One-Joe (ha)

I promise you guys won't turn blue-in-the-face holding your breaths,
it will be in this millennium.

RX8man - genuis that you are, we wait with baited breath.

Meanwhile, I'm conjuring up another mod ............................................... heh-heh-heh

Stay tuned to this channel, I'm in complete control of your preamps, do not attempt to adjust your sound.

I can adjust your width, I can adjust your height, I can adjust your depth.

I can also change your sound from a sleepy "blur" to an alarmingly "focused" stage.

So sit back, relax, grab yer favorite brew, yer beef jerky or whatever, and listen quietly, while I lead you into the towering pyramids of,

*THE SOUND YOU NEVER HAD ............... TILL NOW* !!

The Amperex PQ White Labels I have been using are very nice and may indeed be best for some systems, they seem to provide a very splashy, dynamic, exciting sound with a good amount of detail, no harshness and a quite natural sound. That said, last night my first listen to the Siemens early sixties cca's was something really special. There is a loveliness, control, evenness across spectrum, and a wonderful revelation of deep inner detail such as easily hearing the quailty of wood within a viola, violin, and cello sound. I became so enraptured with each genre I was sampling that I did not get to jazz, rock music, organ, and a few others but surely enjoyed classical piano, Jennifer Warne, Johnny Cash, and Scottish Fantasy classical string.

Sherod and others,I say 2 weeks because the tubes won't be in my hot little hands until next week.I will report my impressions and other particulars thereafter.

Joe,
I love it when you keep us in suspense.

Just got my first quad of cca's in today and will listen for the first time to them tonight.

Joe, I'm just trying to enjoy the preamp, but am still experimenting with the output caps. I'm keeping a low profile on this tweak until I get the full measure of things. By the way, how are those new tubes working out in your preamp?

Mark,
Why wait two weeks? Do they take that long to break in? Also, is this the same Czech Republic company KR Audio? I just looked at their website and I only see triode-type power tubes. I'm curious what your source is for these E88cc tubes you found. What did they cost you? More than a NOS quad of Siemens CCa?

I've purchased a quad of KR tubes.Outrageously expensive but I'm worth it.I'm informed they were extremely difficult to acquire and are the ultimate match for the AH.So,stay tuned and I will share my opinion with you guys sometime in the next couple of weeks.

This thread has been fairly quiet. Interested now that you have your AH preamps, are you sitting back and enjoying the music with big smiles of satisfaction and or moving on to other equipment changes and tweaks?

Hi Joe,
I look forward to hearing your impressions on all these different tubes.

I obtained some tubes to play with in the AH preamp and will report: They include a quad Siemens E188cc from the year 1960, a quad of Siemens early sixty cca, and a quad of Telefunken early sixty E88cc.
From my want ad on a-gon, offers are still coming in. If you have interest email me and I will pass you the person's selling information. For example a pair of cca under RCA label for $150 ANOS. I have not researched these offers so do your own diligence.
Peace
Joe

It's scary to get old so quickly. Time just flies by anymore.

Sherod,

The group recently got together, the tune is Run, Run, Run.

Thinking about this, we're showing our age >>>

Welcome JOJO from just one Joe

Thanks Guys, I feel like I'm in a private club with
the classiest people around.

Rx8man ~ I've heard or seen that name before but I'm not familiar with
JoJo Gunne's music.

Welcome "abroad", Rx8man? Do you live overseas? Just kidding. Yeah, I remember JoJo Gunne. It was about 1971. I was just graduating from high school and I heard this song on the radio with the lyrics, "Ride, ride, ride...". I said to my friend, "Hey, I like that group!" I wonder what happened to them?

I'll third it, nice choice JoJo, welcome abroad !

Do you know of JoJo Gunne from the early 70's ?

Hey I'm going to second that,welcome, and let us know how it blossoms after 200 hours of play time.

Congratulations Jojo. Welcome to the club. Here's hoping that you have many enjoyable hours of musical bliss with your new preamp.

Hello Folks! I just wanted to thank everyone here who have
posted their positive reviews and comments on the AH TP2.0
I stumble upon this tread several weeks ago and read all the
posts and became very curious. I guess this makes me the newest TP2.0 member. I picked up my preamp at Joseph's
house on 4/7 my unit is the TP2.0nB with the upgraded siemens 6922 on the number 1 and 3 (2 and 4 stock tube). I
was not able to listen to the preamp until around 9:30ish
that night, right out of the box this thing sounded good. I
had this big fat grin on my face knowing that I had stumble
upon something special. I was tempted to call Joseph that
night around 11:30ish to let him know how much I was enjoying his preamp but I did not call fearing I might wake
up his family. On the third day I called Joseph to inform
him to cash my check! It was too obvious not to pass on this
great preamp. As far the sound I am currently experiencing it has been said and noted before and I truly have to agree
with everyone's posts so therefore I won't need to say what
has been said before except this baby is mine and it's special.

my humble system consists of:

resolution audio cd55
ah tp2.0nB (replaced the krell krc3)
dynaudio c1
krell fpb200
rega p3 with aurum beta-s cart.
musical surrounding phonomena phono preamp
cables are tara labs: xlr decade and air 1 speaker cables

I am currently auditioning the Transparency interconnect
so far it is winning me over.

Thank You Victor and Joseph you guys are
awesome and true gentlemen..

JoJo

Congratulations, Rx8man, on the "floating board" tweak. Now why didn't I think of that?

Thanks Joe !

I'm gratified for the folks who accepted my floating board experiment and the sucess story.

Now for the acrylic lid ..................... !!

Well, my AH has returned from the preamp spa and it is so great to be enjoying it again. All the detail is there that I have had with my ss these weeks, plus the musicality is back.

Joseph floated the board as Rx8man has suggested we do, and Joseph was able to measure a 3-5 dB lowering of the already quiet noise floor with this tweek. What I hear is nothing - dead silence, except the faintest tube rush with my ear pressed directly on the tweeter. I am running my Amperex PQ's while waiting for a quad of early sixties Telefunken E88cc's I've ordered, and searching for some awesome Siemens cca's.
I hope everyone has been enbjoying the music through thier AH preamps while I have been without mine. Anyone going for the phono stage? If so, are you getting the internal or external one?
Joe

I believe that approaching the question of whether to use the V-cap or not falls into how well it works with the existing circuitry. The cap will have to offer further enhancements without sacrifice before its a permanent replacement of the stock cap and I am sure that is what Joseph and company is thinking. The existing formula works fine why mess with it unless....

Besides, this is fun seeing a manufacturer is considering it and reporting it to us.

Victor, most of us are aware that there is no single preamp out there for everyone. But its nice hearing from those who are not AH owners to bring us back to reality check. The AH is in a special group alright.

Glad you guys are working hard at improvements (phono stage).

"We tried to slow the capacitors down using a balanced copper IC, and indeed, this reduced the digitalizing effect we were hearing and because slower, created a better balance between low and high frequencies, but it thickened the bass and seemed to eliminate the superior micro-detail retrieval we valued before."

I'm not sure why you would want to "slow down" the capacitors. From what I've always read, the best capacitor is no capacitor. Can a capacitor be too fast? I would think that the faster the better as the cap is doing what it is supposed to do while allowing the signal to pass with minimal interference. I'm speaking here from a Layman's point of view.

The V-caps OIMP do indeed improve further long after the 120 hour mark. I heard nice improvements after the 150 mark, 200 mark, and 300 hour mark. The last improvement I could make out was at the 316 hour mark. The frequency extremes will also extend and smooth out as well. Whether Joseph and Victor decide that they like it better than the Hovland is subject to system synergy as well as personal preferences.

Victor - Thanks for the informative post - are there any adds posted with prices yet for the phono amp? Please do keep us informed at 300 hours on the V caps

Since there has been some interest in the V cap, let me give you an update. Joseph and I listened to the V caps after 45 hours and again just the other day after 120 hours burn in time. The V cap is an extremely fast capacitor, which means it has excellent transients and micro-detail retrieval, a fine ability to reproduce harmonic texture, especially the higher overtones, and striking ability to reproduce dynamic contrasts. So far, while the caps have improved in reproducing the various registers, it still preserves its tendency to accentuate the higher frequencies at the expense of the lower ones, with the result that as always in such an instance, it disperses sound very well and seems subjectively to have a wider soundstage than the Hovlands. It is a very demanding capacitor since dynamic musical contrasts appear more extreme than usual, and because it is bright and does not lend itself to background music—at least not at this present stage of break in. At times the combination of brightness and strong dynamic response resulted in a harsh edge, especially, for example, when sopranos hit a high note crescendo. In sum it tended to give all music, whether digital or analog, a more pronounced digital feeling. If one has a speaker system that is on the mellow side—what people sometimes call a “polite” speaker--the V cap may add just enough sparkle and quickness of response to it to create a livelier and better balanced system.

We listened to the V caps with three different IC’s to insure we did not have a cable mismatch. With a balanced Transparency, what I have described above was most pronounced. We tried to slow the capacitors down using a balanced copper IC, and indeed, this reduced the digitalizing effect we were hearing and because slower, created a better balance between low and high frequencies, but it thickened the bass and seemed to eliminate the superior micro-detail retrieval we valued before. We tried a new design developed by Joseph using Cardas wire to come somewhere in between, and we did approach the balance of the Hovlands with this IC, but now we were a little slower and thicker textured than the Hovlands.

In sum, the V cap, if it continues to deepen its registers and if with time the edginess diminishes, may be a very promising cap. We will give another careful listen at 300 hours. At the present time, we are unable to recommend it or to make it available to our customers.

On another front, Joseph has completed the development of a two tube phono stage, which is available in a number of configurations—MM or MC, integrated or separate, stock transformer or premium transformer. I brought over a Stereophile CD and LP of the Mozart Clarinet Concerto so we could compare the phono stage using the stock transformers and the premium transformers to Joseph’s AH DAC. In everything but S/N the phono stage was superior to the DAC, but not embarrassingly so. With the expensive Premium transformers, the disparity between the phono stage and the DAC grew more pronounced, again in all areas but S/N, where it is hard to beat a digital source.
This is a superb phono stage, as we had every hope it would be, given it is Joseph’s creation, but frankly the Premium version was even better than we had hoped.

Lastly, a word to those who were surprised that someone auditioned the TP 2.0nB and chose a different preamplifier. Don’t be. When we designed the TP 2.0, we never strove to produce the best preamplifier out there, or even the best preamplifier we could. We deliberately designed to place our products at the bottom of the high end price point—-that is, between $2000 and $3000, believing that a great many music lovers want to listen to music superbly reproduced without feeling they can not without mortgaging the house.

About 10% of the preamplifiers auditioned are returned, usually with comments like this: “nothing under $8000 could touch it. We finally felt the $16,000 . . . delivered just a little . . .” A recent post notes that the Lamm ref beat out the TP 2.0nB. And why shouldn't it? It sells for $13,680. We feel flattered that the TP 2.0nB can be mentioned respectfully in the same breath with a component costing 347% more. Thank you.

And thank you all for all your support. We appreciate it.

Hi Gammajo,

I have not installed the floating kit yet. I hope to do so next week as time allows and you will be the first to know my thoughts on what it does to the sound.

Yes, I am missing my unit. I have had a month of patience practice. My Northstar DAC was in for repair of two transitors resulting in no right channel. While the DAC was in I had it modded by Mauimods and just got it back yesterday with great results. Took it world class IMO.

Joseph is doing a permanent fix on the grounding issues I had when I got a custom AH (only XLR on the output side at my request). Meanwhile I am using my ss Aragon preamp. This hiatus has given me a chance to go backwards and see how much difference having a great versus good source and preamp has made. Boy, the difference is not subtle.

Hi Joe,
Yes, I have installed the floater kit on only the tube board. Since I put the kit in at the same time that I added the V-cap teflon bypasses, I can't do a fair determination of how the floater kit has improved the sound, but I am going to take an educated guess that it's making an improvement as isolating the tubes and caps from the environment should help the sound improve. At this juncture, I have approx. 175 hours on the bypass caps. Still too early to make an evaluation. I am hoping to hear an improvement by late tomorrow evening when they reach the 200 hour mark. At this point, I'm not too impressed yet with the bypasses. I am missing the sweetness and transparency that the OIMP caps were providing by themselves. Up until about the 120 hour mark, the sound has been dreadful to say the least. These teflons are ugly sounding the first 100+ hours. By the way, Joseph and Victor are tonight, as I am writing this, doing an evaluation of the OIMP caps in Joseph's preamp at his home. Victor is going to give me an early opinion either later tonight or tomorrow. Their OIMP's only have about 80 hours on them, still not fully broken in( takes @ 200 hours) but 80 hours should give them enough to form an early perception of their potential. I hope to give a preliminary impression of the overall sound by the end of the weekend. By the way, what's Joseph doing to your preamp? You must be missing it in your system.