Tune - Synchro-Mesh requires a DAC, SS proc. or SS receiver to work. It is strictly digital in to digital out. It comes with no cables. The input cable can be anything, unimportant. The output S/PDIF coax cable should be a very good one and 1.5m long. I have heard good things about the "Green Hornet" from Music Direct.
The Metrum Octave is a good choice if you are on a budget for a DAC. Big step-up from the DAC inside the SBT.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Thanks Steve. How would I reclock the SBT? Would I need to get a Synchro-Mesh? Does it come with all cables necessary for hookup? Will it give good results without an external DAC in use? |
Reclock the SB Touch, use a good 1.5m long coax cable and power supply and it may actually pass-up your transport. This is just jitter.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
I got a Logitech Squeezebox Touch and am running it stock through the analog outs of my preamp. Sounds very good but not quite as good as my Denon DVD-2930ci which has a little better inner detail & dynamics. Thought I would use them both equally but the Squeezebox's convenience makes me use it 85% of the time. Would not want to get rid of the CD player as it does SACD & DVD-Audio and Squeezebox needs the computer on to play my ripped CD's (WAV & FLAC). |
Pettyofficer, you are a fool...
You need some therapy. You are also publishing complete nonsense and spreading information as though it is fact, which it clearly isn't. You are wrong wrong.
I have worked on IT systems at big companies for years, and by logical implementation of disc arrays, it becomes virtually impossible to EVER loose a file. An external drive (now very cheap for 4TB and upwards) can be set to auto mirror every day, and I recommend music lovers to keep a copy off-site as well.
Lets face it, if you get robbed, those solid CDs will be GONE!. And I have scratched CDs making them skip, and have others grow old (yellowing and loose the silver backing) . The plastic CDs are made of and the printing on the back all age and fail at some point.
A working disc array (or RAID) is cheap compared to many DACs or CDPs and will keep all those valuable music rips safe.
Stop scare mongering none computer literate people and pretending you know about computers. I swopped to Macs years ago and have NEVER had one single virus. And my back-up system at home has NEVER lost one file.
Also, how many out there have bought a 2k CDP only a few years later it starts skipping then the laser dies altogether? Computer hard drive are cheap cheap cheap. Soon SSD will be as well, and then NO MOVING PARTS to wear out.
Now, where did I put that Stone Roses CD?
|
Hi all.
Since getting my AMR cd player with DAC, I have not touched my cd collection which is in excess of 700 cds.
To me, the dac, using even an old Xp pc, sounds great. I can hear no difference whatsoever over CD replay and the DAC. Even low bit rate ( within limits) sound great.
I dont think ill play many cds now. Might slip one in now and then, just for old memories. |
Wildoats- no one says that you can't use Computer Audio any way you want. Ripping CDs will become a further mute point with over ten thousand CD Releases currently out of print. Still available for download from I-Tunes. Certain Selections available from other places. Public being further coralled into download option only as New Releases are now being made only available as downloads- NO CD OPTION AVAILABLE. Download option only one available for a whole slew full of releases. Problem is from fragmentation, magnetic fields, Viruses, Malware, and all forms of Computer Ill's affecting stored Music Files. Only way to replace these releases will be from downloading- if
Internet isn't wasted from next Major Solar Flare. Save the CDs for back-up as Back-up Hard Drive just as succeptible to these Computer Ill's. CDs going away (As They Certainly Are Rapidly Disappearing), don't know what to tell you if you lose your Music. Definitely will be harder to replace! Music Files disposable trash. They don't sound so bad (And are convenient). They just weren't
made to last. Safest bet would be to save both Formats.
FORGET ABOUT IT! Lost that arguement. Putting all eggs in one basket of downloading. Eggs/Music Files = FRAGMENTATION = SLIMY MESS!!! Not so convenient to clean up, or replace! |
"Can anyone tell me why I would want to buy an expensive music server or even use another program to hold my library?"
Sure. Its all about sound quality. If you have a $100K system then this type of source will limit the performance. If you have $150 receiver, maybe you cannot hear it anyway.
You can make improvements to what you already have by first doing software changes.
Why dont you try this: rip a CD that you have ripped before with WMP, but this time rip it with DBPOWERAMP with Accurate-Rip enabled. you can download a free trial version here:
http://www.dbpoweramp.com/dmc.htm
Then play this on a decent player: Foobar2000 and use memory mode for playback. you can download this free app here:
http://www.foobar2000.org/download
If you have a decent system, the dbpoweramp ripped track will sound better when played back on WMP and Foobar2000 will sound better than WMP.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
My new Marantz SA8004 sacd player/DAC has a USB input. So for the hell of it I ripped some cd's (WAV lossless)unto my laptop on Windows media Player. Hmm, easier than other programs I tried to rip cd's to. The album picture and songs are there. So I listen to my computer on my big rig. I tried a song each from about 10 ripped cd's. I'm using a really cheap USB cable I got for $1 at a thrift store. One end plugs into the computer the other end into my cd player/dac. It sounds really good. Before this I thought computer audio was so tough. Not. So, my computer laptop using WMP is now a music server. It seems to be everything I will need. My selections from my library are only limited by how many of my cd's I rip. I will transfer everything to a backup hard drive. I have about 60 cd's on here so far. I can play any tune from them with one click. I can also make a playlist, quickly from the cd's. Can anyone tell me why I would want to buy an expensive music server or even use another program to hold my library? For computer music this seems to be all I need except I ordered a lower cost Audioquest USB cable. In a short time listening, it seems to sound at least as good as spinning discs without having to get up and and find them. If I can easily do this anyone can. Nice discovery after all the computer audio horror stories I've heard about. |
"Not sure I want to convert out of Qsonix into the world of MAC, transport, ipad, and other stuff...but I'm glad I'm not alone in preferring the sonic quality of a good disc spinner vs computer audio...usb vs firewire, expensive dacs and usb cables; upgraded power supplies and tweaks, and which software to use"
You can still keep the Qsonix and get better SQ from it. I have been adding reclockers to customers Qsonix for years. Originally I added the Pace-Car, but that required mods to the Qsonix output board.
Now, I have the Synchro-Mesh to lower jitter of the Qsonix. No mods needed. May be all you need:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/empirical4/1.html
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
I currently prefer by a large margin playing cd's or sacd's |
Late to this party...I have a Ayon CD-5s for DAC/Transport; and its clearly better in sonic performance than hi res downloads on my Qsonix 205 server; being run thru the same tubed dac, with balanced digital cable...I enjoy the convience of my server for play lists, and it comes about 85% of the sonic quality; depth, and detail of the Cd direct; but when I have friends over for serious listening sessions; I drop in a CD...
I did hear a fellow 'Goners digital system at home in Malibu; and it made me re-think my server; and perhaps some of my problem lies in my Qsonix, not the server world in general. Not sure I want to convert out of Qsonix into the world of MAC, transport, ipad, and other stuff...but I'm glad I'm not alone in preferring the sonic quality of a good disc spinner vs computer audio...usb vs firewire, expensive dacs and usb cables; upgraded power supplies and tweaks, and which software to use; it makes my head spin, want to get it correct if and when I make the switch... |
Do respect your two cents, Jeffatus. Everyone thinks that I am cynical. I am trying to uncynicalize Major Labels/ O.S. Manufacturers from a narcistic obsession over profit at the expense of sound quality. That means that they want to take away your option of buying releases on CD, therefore force you to strictly buying your Music via downloads ONLY!!! There are atleast several thousands of CD releases OUT OF PRINT! You cannot buy them on CD, but they are strictly available as downloads ONLY! New Music is starting to not even be released on CD- download ONLY!
Pretty soon the only thing that you will be able to burn a copy of will be a download, unless you are blocked by Copyright Data Management already installed in Microsoft O.S. MUSIC is going the way of CDs, Records, 8 Track, and VHS. You are NOT going to get any improvement in sound quality for PC Audio from Microsoft. That is the end of PC Audio Format- what else is there? Cynical Anti-Audiophile Manufacturers are now in charge of sound quality for PC Audio. There is no sound quality for most downloads when it stands in the way of profit. I am trying to be optomistic about us holding onto atleast one other Format
so that Gamers don't decide that my MP3 Sampling Rate is just too high- and cuts into Computer Manufacturers profit. You want sound quality, you are going to have to fight these bast___s for it. For me, that is being optimistic. Music, and sound quality, IS worth fighting for! What sound quality a majority of American Public is not interested in- IS BEING CYNICAL! I am trying to promote QUALITY over PROFIT. This is something that I am OPTIMISTICALLY trying to do! Yeah, wish me luck!!! |
Wow, a lot of thought on this. Pretty intense and cynical....
My two cents, pretty simple: I have CD's and no longer have a CD player. Everything is through my computers music library to PW DAC mkII. Sounds excellent and cd's are going the way of records, 8 track, and VHS. I will keep buying Cd's as my hard copy backup, but will only use them to burn them. |
I appreciate your response, Mountainsong. The most important thing to remember is that all Consumers are in competition with manufacturers in demanding bigger bang
(Music Sound Quality) for the Buck. We are in constant negotiations over quality. We are playing poker with these manufactures across the table. We show them our hand when we claim "The American Public is not interested in Sound Quality". What are we doing in boosting the competition when we tip our hand? Who does this help, yourself- or the guy across the table? We should be eyeballing him to make sure he doesn't have anything up his sleeve. He is not our friend. He is in this game to win at our expense- spelled out LESS BANG (Sound Quality) FOR THE BUCK! He carries his own six shooters, I don't think he is in any desperate need for our help. We are the Prey in this game, the Predator is NOT going to be our FRIEND! CONVENIENCE is a hook the Predator uses very well to lure its Prey. Try looking in the mirror if you still don't understand who that Prey is. LEVERAGE is our only defense, not empty hopes and promises. Stop shooting Sound Quality (And Yourself) in the foot all of the time. Everyone will be very glad to give you alot less, unless you demand more.
Who are you negotiating with- yourself? Appreciate it if you wouldn't lose! We all lose. |
Pettyofficer i am by your side, you really understand well the phenomenon that certainly will not get fix as per request of stereophile magazine or audiogone forums......
I enjoyed your analysis of the matter!
Salud |
You don't think that "The American Public is not interested
in Sound Quality", isn't a despairing statement? This is not my statement. Check my previous entries. I am the
optimist arguing against this statement. Those who promote
PC Audio use this despairing statement as support. THAT
IS SAD!!! It would be like them saying that everyone should lower their Sound Quality in utilizing Computer Audio- How Mundane! I am taking the optimist route here that I believe Computer Audio has potential. I am optimistic about keeping CD around as a check, and balance
in case manufacturers get lazy with the Sound Quality of
Computer Audio. I am optimistic at targeting Software O.S.
Manufacturers for dragging research into improving
Computer Audio Music. I am optimistic about a Public planting a size 14 up their b___s to get them out of their
myopic obsession over profit- and do something about
improving Computer Audio. Why must it always be dragged down by severe limitations in the O.S. Software? People
will eventually realize what they have lost in Music, and
eventually demand it back! That is my optimistic answer to
the first statement at the beginning of this Response. What, pray tell, is your optimistic answer? Fairie dust
just isn't going to cut it with Microsoft. You need to put
some pig skin in the game to get that research/ development
a movin' in the O.S. Software for Computer Audio. It
simply cannot succeed otherwise. How can it? Give me a reason why it would (That is NOT being pessimistic!). Do
we really expect that Microsoft reverse researching, and
reverse developing Software for Computer Audio will magically make it more successful? HOW MUNDANE!!! |
Pettyofficer,
This is too much despair for me.
I quit. I will go the way of others who have met you and left this topic of discussion.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Nonoise, I use ASUS products for Computer Audio. On the
Hardware side Computer Audio has huge potential. There
is actual Research/Development being done in the Hardware
for Computer Audio improvement. It is just that this can't
fill the vacuum of lack of the same for Software in the
O.S. with Computer Audio. Microsoft (And the rest) are just
laughing their butts off at their idea of silly expectations for Computer Audio. Of course there are
competing dollars. Dollars for Computer Audio (Music) versus Dollars for other Computer Entertainment (Games,
Videos, Apps). Microsoft sees ZERO profit for the former,
and ALL of the profit in the latter. You tell them that
" The American Public is not interested in Sound Quality "!
They believe you, and vote their dollars in research/development in all things Computer other than
Computer Audio Music. This has to be the first Audio Format
that shoots itself in both feet, and cuts its own nose off
to spite its face. No matter how hopeful, no Audio Format
can survive this. I want to use more than one Audio Format,
one being Computer Audio. Microsoft would rather put a game, video, or an App. in my hand rather than a Music File. Talk to them if you want Computer Audio to be successful. I wish you luck (Sincerely!). I like Music too! Here is a secret- THEY DON'T!!! They like maximizing profit instead. You can't build on a Computer Audio Format
without some Software Foundation. "FORGET ABOUT IT"! They are not going to provide it! Hold your breath if you want-
they will win that one too. |
Bifwynne, I concur wholeheartedly. My CDP is my only method of listening.
It's all a matter of if and when something better this way comes.
I think we're all just seeing this from different perspectives.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I happen to agree with Pettyofficer. In fact, I just posted a note to my system description that pretty much makes the same point.
Look, I'm almost 60 years old. I am tied to IT and computers as much as anyone out there. But I do not know or keep up with all of these "exotic" PC formats, e.g., flak, MAC, iPod, and ya da ya da.
All I want to do is stick a CD into the player, or drop (not literally) a tonearm on an LP, sit back and listen.
Yes . . . if and when the music industry settles on some standard PC digital format that us PC dummies can pronounce and understand, I'll look into it. But right now, I am standing pat. |
Pettyofficer, you can't keep playing both sides against the middle. The bits and pieces that comprise really good audio playback are already out there. Standardization will follow once one of the major players takes a first step. Others will follow.
The 6moons review of the ASUS product and Srajans take on what could be done tell me that it's just a matter of time. There are no monolithic masters out there dictating to others what will be done. They are competing for our dollars and once one of them figures "us" out, the rest will be history.
These major players tend to eat each other, not us. Yes, they want our dollars but they covet each others markets more and that is what they have their sights on.
As I said earlier, all of this will not stop the research and tinkering that propels audio. Markets aside, it will be done because it can be done by those of us who desire better music/sound.
When companies like ASUS make a serious audio product, they don't need nor seek Microsofts or Apples permission. They simply do it. If what they make makes a serious enough dent in the market, others will heed the trend.
I'm content to wait.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Whoooaa, Nonoise! I thought that we were all supposed to be
NOT be interested in Sound Quality since we are purchasing
Computer Audio now! I am not pessimistic. I just know that
the ONLY way to hit the nail on the head of High Quality
Music is COMPETITION between Formats. No joy if we are in
the business of terminating Formats. Unless you have
something to hit Microsoft (And Bretheren) on the head to get their Software in the High Quality Music business- there is your bottleneck of pessimism. They are not exactly doing any research/development on Computer Audio,
so we have to patchwork around their Audio defficient
Operating Systems. This is the source of Computer Audio
research/development being hog tied. This is the ball, and
chain wrapped around Computer Audio's neck. Lots of joy in
research/development in other Audio Formats- NO JOY in same
from Major Software Manufacturers. Without research/
development Computer Audio (Music) goes nowhere. Lots of
research in games, apps, and Video though. Music, ehhh...
not so much from Microsoft. As far as they are concerned,
you don't have a Computer Audio Format since they don't
support it (That is their pessimism, not mine). They are
sort of like the rest of us Joe Shmoes that are not interested in Sound Quality (Excuse me, I mean that they
don't see a profit in it!). Yet, those who promote Computer Audio DO SEE a future in using it. How is that
possible with Major Operating System Software Manufacturers
DO NOT see a future in doing ANY research/development in
Computer Audio Music. Me thinks there is a serious flaw here in your logic, and reason. That doesn't necessarily
mean that I am pessimistic. I can be just as optimistic as
anyone else about that large crack in a huge Dam, spewing
water. No reason to panic, right? It will hold, right? |
@ mountainsong, look up Henge Beat's album Total Control on allmusic.com...other sources might include discogs.com or even amazon.com, i buy cds from amazon almost monthly. |
Realremo
How can I get a copy of the Australian band?
Thanks |
Pettyofficer.
You are too pessimistic. Plain and simple. High quality music will always be around as it's not that difficult to maintain high standards be it with CDs, laptops, etc.
Someone will hit the nail on the head, format wise, and all will be well.
All the best,
Nonoise |
So many distortions, so little time. Nonoise: "Better PC
Audio is just around the corner...". Microsoft, Mac...etc,
are NOT interested in the AUDIOPHILE business- or Music
business. There is no plans on the table for "RESEARCH",
"DEVELOPMENT" in the "SOFTWARE" department of Computer Audio. Other Audio Formats have had a history of Research,
and development. Software development for Computer Audio in
Operating Systems is non-existent. These Manufacturers are
strictly in the Information business, not the Music business. You have no Advocate in Software development for
Computer Audio. If Major Manufacturers won't even support development of Computer Audio Format, you don't have a
Format. Realmo: "Petty officer, yes lots of New Artists are only available via MP3 download". Nice try in distracting from the fact of Tens of Thousands of CD Selections are currently out of print. Bizarre that they
all remain available for sale on i-Tunes. "Vast Majority of
people really don't care about Sound Quality". The best
fable to boost profit at your expense. You would have to accept that people generally don't care about quality in
anything. That they are desperately seeking the lowest quality anything at a higher price. I don't see people
rushing to the market demanding to pay double of what is
on the price tag. I am having a hard time trying to apply
this same bizarre scenario to Products that produce Sound
Quality. It is a fable from Manufacturers, to benefit
Manufacturers, to benefit their Profit at your expense.
Such convenience must surely be by accident, and not by design. Am I also supposed to buy that the Earth really is flat after all? Sorry, you are not picking my pocket for that one- or any other conveniently profitable fable. We
instinctively demand lower value (Quality), and demand to
pay double/triple for it with Computer Audio? Yet, with
other Audio Formats we do the inverse? I wonder why? People
have a self interest in promoting the Format they like best, by eliminating the competition with Fable/Rook/ or by
Crook!. Give me more than one Audio Format for competitions
sake- That is what I am trying to promote. I am not promoting a single exclusive Format here for New Music- or any Music!!! Lower Quality in many things is something this
economy cannot afford; because, it can only lead to lower
acceptable Quality in everything. This creates severely
harmful Recessions, and Depressions. This is NOT CONVENIENT at all for you! Continuously lower the bar, it
will eventually strangle you- and any hope for economic recovery. What a waste, choice is yours. Results are on your head. |
My CD still sounds better than my server. And my server sounds awesome (JRiver 17 w/JPlay, ESI Juli@, Esoteric G25U/Berkeley DAC). The Esoteric X03Se/G25U/Berkeley sounds better. (I an running 30 feet spdif cable which may be a factor, though). |
.
New music being released only on download is fine with me. I rarely buy new music. I'm 59 yrs old and I primarily listen to jazz. There are so many jazz recordings that I still don't have from the 1940's thru 2010. It will be another 40 years before I discover all of the older jazz recordings that I have yet to hear....so, I'm all set. Every thing that I want to listen to is already either on a cd or a vinyl record.
. |
Mitch/Larry, this is why I decided to go with a PC audio setup, instead of buying a really nice CDP. I was at a crossroads, had bought a cheapo changer, and I knew I wasn't a single-disc guy, so after much hand wringing I went PC audio and never regretted it.
Petty officer, yes lots of new artists are only available via .mp3 download. I feel your pain. The indie music scene seems to think producing music with poor dynamic range is "stickin' it to the man." Some bands think going into a studio with tons of great recording gear is "selling out," I guess. I don't know how this kind of sound got popular, maybe it's all about budget, maybe not. Consider the Arctic Monkeys. Their first album was not well produced, but was very catchy and capitalized on their huge club following. Set all kinds of sales records. I will say that the quality of the 256kbps downloads on iTunes has improved greatly, but I still won't buy them. I vote with my wallet, but the vast majority of people really don't care about sound quality, and it is that majority that has most of the buying power. How do we change the sonic preferences of 20 million U.S. teenagers?
All that said, a lot of serious musicians make sure their music is available for lossless download somewhere on the 'net, consider Total Control's Henge Beat. Very edgy garage punk/synth pop; a lesser known Australian band made a very specific decision to release their album on the internet, and made sure a lossless version was available on allmusic.com, along with downloadable artwork so you could make your own CD jewel case. Of course that specific download is no longer available...and yes I have a lossless copy! |
I had fun as well when it came to the convenience of perusing my collection. Fast and easy became the norm. It was only when I swapped out some ICs that I came to the conclusion that all bets were off as far as sound quality: the difference was that big. Being a cheapie, I 'retreated' back to my CDP and my old ways, Ol' fart that I am. Better PC audio is just around the corner and when it comes, I'll be among the first to adopt. Check out Sarjans review of the ASUS DAC/Headphone/Preamp http://6moons.com/audioreviews/asus/1.htmlYes, that ASUS. And pay attention to his remarks at the end of his review. ASUS has the means and market reach to finally come up with a dedicated laptop music server and keep the cost down, if only they listen..... I recall a member here who wanted to see if there were enough feedback and willingness to seek out a maker of laptops for the same purpose. After reading Sarjans review, I feel it's just a matter of time. All the best, Nonoise |
.
Larry, the tedium of loading those albums is going to pay huge dividends once you are all done.
Next year I plan to buy an analog to digital converter to digitize some of my LP's that were never released on cd....now THAT will be tedious!
. |
Mitch,
I would not guess about others, but, my experience mirrors yours. I like the sound of my CD player, but, I find much more pleasure in the music using the server--it is so much easier to locate and sample long-forgotten purchases, and I enjoy putting together playlists that are hours long with just a few minutes of scrolling through my collection.
In the two weeks I've had the server, I have managed to load almost 600 albums, so I have a LONG way to go. The tedious task of loading albums and editing the metadata is the big ergonomic downside to the server. |
Sorry Realremo! The Major Labels ARE gearing up for all of
their New Music to ONLY be available as Music Downloads.
That means NO CD Release! I have already come across
numerous New Artists whose Music is only available via
Music Downloads. I have already come across thousands of
CDs that are out of print (Not Available in CD). Only
access to these selections still remains strictly Music
Downloads. "...and they wonder why anyone would still be
buying shiny discs", those are the majority of Customers that Manufacturers are targeting with Music Downloads $$$!
Shiny Disks just get in the way, well...they have just got
to go! The CONVENIENCE is in the money going into the
pockets of these Manufacturers, selling disposably cheap
Music Files. Music Quality being replaced with the
conveniently disposable cheap for profit. Quality costs
money to produce, lower Quality to maximize Profit. To give
up Quality for the sake of convenience- IN THIS ECONOMY???
If there is another Recession, maybe we deserve what we get! We no longer have ANY Standard for Music Quality. Any
Standard for Quality in anything else we buy- will be the
next of many dominoes to fall. Might as well just sign over
your entire monthly Paycheck for a few beans! Sooo Sad!!! |
.
I would hazard a guess that people that have computer based systems listen to a lot more music than those that don't. The convenience factor is a monster. Yes, my cd player sounds much better, but I get much more enjoyment out of my computer based system because getting to the music I want to hear is very easy to access. For me it's all about the music. The more music I have access to the better.
. |
I just buy used or new CDs and rip them. I basically open the CD case once, pop it into my laptop to rip it to my external hard drive, and practically never open that case again, unless I want to re-rip it into another format for some weird reason. So I guess I am a PC audio guy who still buys CDs. People come over and simply marvel at how many CDs I have, and they wonder why anyone would still be buying shiny discs..."they sound better than the iTunes stuff," I tell them; I don't get into details. Whenever this happens, it reminds me of the old CD vs vinyl issue, and it makes me feel really old! CDs are going to be around for a long time still. |
Yeah, I kind of felt the same way being cajowled into pulling teeth for some CD Selection out of a dwindling
Format. Been painted into a corner of Computer Audio
Format Selection (Still Limited). Both Formats have
something to offer. Shoot, I would buy the same selection
from both Formats. I would probably keep the one that
sounded the best- never in the same Format! Buy the best
sounding of Computer Audio, and CD- never the same selection. No, everyone had to have the CONVENIENCE of
Computer Audio Format- or the HIGHWAY. Who is more foolish,
the fool- or the fool who follows him. If you were fooled, I followed! We have no adequate Music Format now! Our Music is splintered all over the place. I find this condition unacceptable. When do we start to fix this- or is it too INCONVENIENT to do so? Do we continue to strangle
what little life is left in the CD Format? Simple question
only requiring a simple YES, or NO! You tell me where we go from here- I'm just lost! I'm out of suggestions, and
completely frustrated- I give up! Our Music is a mess of
splintered Formats. Computer Audio is completely splintered. I don't know where to get Music from anymore. |
|
Not gloating! Vindication, never expected it- don't now!
I just wanted the freedom to play both Formats, and there
is alot less risk that way. In that respect do we now
plan on saving the CD Format- I didn't think so! Obviously,
this doesn't help me; therefore, I have nothing to gloat/
be vindicated about. I am in the same sorry lifeboat
(Without a Format Paddle) as everyone else! "Well Olie,
another fine mess you have gotten us into"! No Gloat,
no Vind- just rolling around with the egg on my face
(Same a everyone else). Can we clean the mess up now? |
No need to gloat.
There is no vindication here, just another aspect to be considered.
All things in good time.
All the best,
Nonoise |
We are just now discovering all of these warts with Computer Audio? Now that we have been trying to kill off
the CD Market with "Soon all New Music will only be
available as Music Downloads"! I have been desperately
promoting the use of both Formats so long as Computer
Audio remains an unfinished Format- it is indeed that!
Now we are caught between the loss of one Format, and
the premature underdevelopment of its replacement Format.
Nice job cutting off your nose to spite your face for the sake of convenience (At the cost of everything else!). |
Akg - The compressed formats are not as good as .wav for sure, however AIFF comes pretty close to .wav on a Mac, and retains all of the tags and album art.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
If my listening sessions were short, I probably would have bought a very nice CDP. But I work from home sometimes, and that happens in my listening room, and it gets really old constantly getting up and swapping discs throughout the day.. Not to mention the stacks and stacks of plastic cases that I have to re-alphabetize. Even my night work sessions are at least 2 hours long; I'm not a single-disc guy...plus a PC rig can be incrementally updated, a nice CDP cannot.
When I compare the final price of my PC rig to the cost of a nice CDP, used or new, the convenience factor plays a huge role in that decision. I get great sound from my PC rig, but there are too many variables in the all the other systems I've heard to decide the CDP vs PC debate. I'd have to A/B my friend's MF NuVista vs my PC rig. Now that would be something.
Also, Empirical's Mac-based rigs at RMAF 2010 and 2011 were not cold-sounding. But they weren't anywhere near my budget either! |
I use my CDP and will wait for the Computer based systems to mature. Would like to wait till we have "affordable" NAND/Flash based storage in the 2-4TB range.
Currently researching transports and DACs available. What I would like:
-To get a "transport" that can play ALL types of discs and formats. MSB has one that is priced at around $4K. Looks like that is a modded Oppo.
-To get an affordable DAC that can decode, along with regular stuff (PCM, FLAC, AAC, etc), DSD, DXD and HDCD. DCS and MSB has that, but I will have to donate some organs to be able to afford that.
So, looks like I am at least a couple of years away from the PC audio stuff. Hence I am pretty happy with my CDP. Also interested in the new Marantz SA-11S3 player that can play SACD. |
Neal, I think you hit the nail on the head. My PC rig was basic, at best, but it still bested my CDP in terms of clarity, detail, ambience and extension at both ends. It wasn't until I tried some old Mapleshade ICs I had that now, the CDP bested my iMac in every way you could think of. That warmth you mentioned was the missing ingredient.
It could very well be some form of jitter, for all I know, but it's full bodied, rich, and tonally loaded along with all the positive attributes I get from my iMac. There is no loss of detail, ambience or clarity but just the opposite: a more fully depicted rendering.
I get it that folk get a certain amount of satisfaction from mastering PC audio. It's like repairing a car and enjoying the ride. There is a romantic aspect to it all, not to mention the convenience. But all the PC rigs I've heard at audio shows had that missing warmth you mentioned, to some degree. Exacting, they were. Almost, but not quite hyper, and a bit unnaturally in-your-face. Only the MSB set up had me on the opening notes, and it was a CDP set up I was listening to. Exorbitantly expensive but still a CDP.
All the best,
Nonoise |
"It seems that some kind of reconstructing of the data has to be done AFTER going through a DAC. If this is so, then all bets are off and folk here are merely settling for something incrementally better."
There are a lot of designers that have tried to do this, but all so far have failed. There are technical reasons why this will probably never achieve the optimum jitter result.
The best solution IME is still a low-jitter digital source, whether CD transport or computer interface, feeding a DAC with no reclocking in it.
There are lots of poor digital sources out there, both CD transports and computer interfaces. The trick is to cut through the BS and find the best ones.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
What your DAC or CDP can produce depends on the quality of your cdp and the DAC therein.
On the weekend we test-drove a $900 DAC, and also a $4000 DAC at the dealer steamed from a MAC computer in Apple Lossless format: neither matched the performance from the same tunes played as the redbook CDP (about $12K) w.r.t. sounstage width and depth, vocal presence and instrument clarity, digging out much more the subtle details in the recording, and mainly the PRaT and overall emotion.
In this audition, the digital music server playback was comparatively compressed with a perceived dip in the midrange and upper midrange upper midrange
The point: what are are you prepared to give and compromise between the different formats? |
I still love the sound of a CD played on my modded CEC TL-1X transport through PWD MKII DAC. Generally use a Byrston BDP-1 digital music player, but sometimes there is a warmth to the CD playback that analog fans probably love about their LP's.
Neal |
It sounds like a lot of folk are settling for a computer based system and extolling its virtues, proclaiming the death of CDPs. It's only when I read reviews like this: http://www.stereotimes.com/ (on the Laufer Teknik Memory Player 64) that I realize said folk are settling for less. Granted, present day PC audio might be better than some, or most, CDPs out there, but there is still a long way to go. It seems there is much more to jitter than thought and what arrives at the DAC is far from perfect and the DAC can't reconstruct what is already riddled with jitter due to a host of things. Even standard memory players can't make whole what is damaged to begin with. Reading data, transmitting data, and converting data is not all there is to it, or so the designer of the Laufer MP would have you believe. Jitter is introduced at each and every step you can imagine. There is no perfect signal that is captured so when jitter laden data enters the DAC, no matter the pedigree, it remains there when outputted. At least that is what I got from the review. The price of the unit is right up there where I can't afford it but those who have heard it swear by it (so says the reviewer) . Does anyone here know of or have heard this player and is the article correct? It seems that some kind of reconstructing of the data has to be done AFTER going through a DAC. If this is so, then all bets are off and folk here are merely settling for something incrementally better. All the best, Nonoise |
Still getting mixed results comparing CDs with Computer based Systems- sound quality wise. I see no reason for
either/ or contest between the two. Next Solar Flare wipes
out all software for word processing, you are going to be hurting for that Typewriter. Computer Audio is flaky, fragile, susceptible to fragmentation, not to mention all
manor of viruses/ malware/ spyware/ and magnetic fields.
Despite this Computer Audio is still usable, but I certainly would use CD as a back-up. I have never had to
back-up a CD. Music Files are disposable Computer trash, much like disposable lighters. Back-ups are only lipstick
on this Pig. Sneeze and you would fragment half of your
Music Files. They are only temporary, and certainly not
made to last. They are only cheap, and inexpensive- not
unlike magnetic cassette tapes! Remember those? A good
magnet can wipe out both, how reliable can that be? |
