Are big subwoofers viable for 2 channel music?

Hey sorry to revive the thread but now i am in the future space I mentioned. Its 32 x 34 feet x 8 feet basement. I am only doing music / hifi here no HT.

I am thinking of what subs to get. I got some dual gsg audio full martys for my HT and i love them. I wanted to know if I should go that route for this space or mix and match approach with multiple different subs. Looking to buy used to save money. I am in Canada. I have been all over canuck audio mart but can't find anything that I think is a good deal.

Normally I would say that if you like the gsg then I would go with the gsg. But your case may be a bit more complex. It appears that the gsg subs are passive so depending on what amp you use, you may not even have low pass capabilities not to mention any phase control. It will also depend on what main speakers you pair it with. If you are going to pair it with a full range floor stander that cycles quite low and use only a low pass filter then you will probably be not be using much of the subs potential. If you are going to pair it with a smaller main that doesn’t cycle low and use an active crossover then you should be good to go with the gsg, though I would go with the 18” over the 21”

Honestly I have thought of this same issue. I also have a large basement setup that is 95% two channel and 5% home theater. I have looked at large home theater subs (JTR captivator etc.) online and read up on them but almost no one uses them for two channel. I think they would be just as good for two channel but have no idea. I think there is very little crossover between the crazy custom HT crowd and the highend two channel crowd. I think you should let us know how it works lol.

Some subwoofer processing have multiple customizable EQ presents that can be set for HT and two channel as well as inputs for HT and two channel. While both systems can be connected only one system can be used at a time. 

I'm curious if anyone has tried having a multi-way sub array with several small subs throughout the room and one big one that only plays the lowest notes.  If you give a big sub a gradual rolloff starting at 30 or 35 hz it's less likely to have negative interactions with the room in the higher frequencies that tend to have the most problems.  Then add a bunch of smaller, cheaper subs that rolloff above 30 or 35hz.  It'd be a hassle but might get the most bang for the buck.  

I've got a tiny psb subseries 100 that sounds fantastic but has very limited dynamics and extension.  There's a used one on ebay for around $100.  I might be able to buy 10 small subs for not that much money.  Having a whole bunch would even out room response everywhere but the lowest bass.  The limited dynamics would be greatly improved by having a whole bunch of them.

@jon_5912  That is sort of like a rel six pack except you have different sizes and types of subs. I bet it would work well if it was properly setup.

For a large space like the one initially lined out by the OP (or be that even a smaller ditto), serving home theater duties to boot, I'd wager to keep the thing of it all the most "musical" - i.e.: with low distortion, effortless and smoothly distributed bass - is to go with two or more big, higher eff. subs. Many seem to be hellbent on the "multiple smaller subs vs. fewer or only a single big one" division. For Pete's sake, what's with the self-imposed limitations? Have your cake and eat it too with a bunch of large subs like the ones from the reasonably priced and quality items PSA, and make them no less equipped than with 18" diameter woofers. These are high eff. pro drivers with a moving mass to cone diameter and motor force ratio that in no way makes for "slow" bass, contrary to some high moving mass, very low eff. (<85dB's) woofers meant for ultra small sub cabs with a bass reproduction that never really "gels" with the mains. Yes, very generally large, high eff. subs to my ears sound somewhat more musically "right" and well-integrated, because you don't sense they're using any real effort reproducing bass with their large diameter cones that barely move. Sonically in some regards REL subs are one of the more notable exceptions from the small cab/low eff. "camp" being not least they don't try and squeeze out infrasonics from their designs, that would have otherwise necessitate a higher moving mass in the driver and thus resulted in even lower sensitivity and likely bass lag. But, again: big (higher eff.) subs are not only viable for music reproduction; they would seem wholly essential if you ask me, while providing for a very worthwhile impact watching movies as well. What people won't do to avoid size in subs, and the hassle this has a tendency to bring with it (sometimes unknowingly, because they haven't heard the difference). It may even come down to large size being judged as "not looking cultivated enough," or "too brute for hi-fi." 🙄 When you got the space, use it. Bass properly sized/scaled is all the better for it.  

@phusis I definitely am wrestling with this now. What if I got some 12 inch klipsch subs... maybe 4 or 6 of them and put them all over my room even at different heights. For that money I can buy 2x full marty gsg cabs with 21 inch mach 5 drivers (used pair has come up on canuck) and dual crown amps. Which would be better? I think you make a lot of good arguments.

Or if you look at something like rel for the price of even 1.5x of S812s I can get this dual 21 inch setup.

Has anyone heard of or had experience with Snap AV?  They are a custom install only brand that I had never heard of.  I ran across some used subs on ebay for dirt cheap and they appear to be well-designed.  They're sealed, and have phase knobs instead of the 0/180 switch.  I consider that to be a sign of serious design in a sub.

I wonder if the low name recognition results in them having terrible resale value even though they're pretty good.  I just bought one for a whopping $112.  Not much of a risk.

@smodtactical , For that space you are going to need at least two 12" subs with excursions over a cm or you will be pissing into a forest fire. 

The idea that music requires different subwoofers than theater I find very odd. Any sub system that can reproduce down to 18 Hz accurately is perfectly acceptable for both. 

What is speed when it comes to driver performance? What does "faster" mean? The faster a driver can move the higher the frequency it can reproduce. If a driver can move fast enough to reproduce 500 Hz then 100 Hz should not be a problem at all. What everybody is referring to when they say "fast" or "faster" is transient response. The diameter of a driver is only one factor that can influence transient response. There is also the stiffness of the suspension, the weight of the moving system, and the power of the drive motor. The point is, when it comes to reproduction under 100 Hz an q18" driver is no slower than an 8" driver. Anyone who thinks so is just falling prey to "lay intuition," 

There are many excellent subwoofer drivers available today. The driver is usually not the source of problems. It is that enclosure that separates the men from the boys. 

When it comes to big vs little subs and one vs many, I don't care.  I just want the best performance for the money.  I already have a Velodyne dd18, Infinity Intermezzo 1.2, and the tiny PSB.  One thing that I know is that it's impossible to get flat bass in any room I've ever been in with a single sub and without a lot of bass traps and eq.  I tried when I was in my twenties and it's not worth the trouble.  I did get really flat bass with the help of 25+ bass traps and extreme eq.  It sounded weird, though, and I didn't stick with it.  I find the claim that multiple subs can solve a lot of room problems plausible.  The more you have the less hard they all have to work and I'm confident the room nulls can be solved by this.  Since the more you have the lower volume setting they'll all have, the node excitement is bound to be reduced.  The main problem with small subs IMO is that the small driver needs extreme excursion which means extreme pressure in the box and a ton of power.  These things are very bad for longevity.  

I'm not opposed to having 10 18" high sensitivity subs but if I can avoid it I will.  I agree that high sensitivity has a sound characteristic that I like.  

I can confirm that the Snap AV sub is a good quality littlle sub.  It's got good output down to 37hz, pretty much done by 30hz.  For an 8" sub for $112 on ebay it's a steal.  Gloss black box, good controls,  I wonder if all custom install only brands have terrible resale value.

JBL SUB18. Peak output of 137db and gets pretty low while doing it, Pretty nuts.

https://jblpro.com/products/sub18

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1221512-REG/jbl_sub18_high_output_studio_subwoofer.html

["jon_5912       I already have a Velodyne dd18,    One thing that I know is that it's impossible to get flat bass in any room I've ever been in with a single sub and without a lot of bass traps and eq."] 

I suggest using the TIP: on page 23 in the Velodyne DD User's Manual or running the Sweep Tones while walking (Crawl Test) your room and mapping the the loudest bass modes for a potential sub position. 

If your DD-18 is positioned in your rooms loudest bass mode resulting from the TIP or Crawl Test with the mic at the listening position you should see a reasonably improved before and after result after running the Self EQ.

The initial goal is a relitivly even (not ruler flat) frequency response from the speakers 200Hz and the subs frequency adjustments beginning at 100Hz to where your speakers just begin to fall off. These are your crossover region adjustments which should be saved to your presets. Everything below that frequency are personal taste levels.  

Unfortunately the manual LOW PASS, SUBSONIC, CONTOUR frequencies / slopes, PHASE and POLARITY parameter adjustments can be a tedious task using the sweep tones and confirmed with some music, also stored to memory.

Despite its twenty year old software these efforts will result in greater adjustability and detail compared to most any current onboard subwoofer processing today. Hardly impossible.

DD Plus does it all along with added discrete Q filter building automatically leaving some quick multiple drag and drop Manual matter of taste adjustments.   

Any recommendations for an 18" sub driver good for music? I heard the pro audio drivers tend to put out more mid bass than HT focused drivers like dayton UM18s.