The SAS Stylus for the type III is better than anything Shure ever made for any of thier Cartridges, and with SAS on board the older Shure, you might find it stomps your newer Shure, which by many, was never really that highly regarded anyway. |
I've been through a lot of cartridges (40 years worth) but keep coming back to the Type 3. After auditioning the xMR, I replaced it with a M97xE I had laying around. The overall impression was that it had a slightly muddy bottom end but costwise compares well. Some of the things I've enjoyed with the t3 is its lack of shyness in the bass, the treble is crisp and dynamic, transitions are spot on, but voices can at times be somewhat brittle. No coloration anywhere. Taking your experience into account, I'll try the SAS, but only one (they aren't cheap) for comparison to the ellipticals. Thanks for your reply. |
I think you'll be very happy with the performance the SAS Stylus gives on the V-15 Type III. This ultra tiny Stylus seems to bear much resemblence to what is used on the top end MC Cartridges, for example, like what's on a ZYX Cartridge.
I have bought one for my own Type III. The SAS will perhaps be a little more touchy on set up, but will be worth the effort. Other things I'd like mentioning, is the nude SAS Stylus is bonded to a Solid Boron Cantilever, which appears to be sleeved onto the remainder of stock Cantilever going into the Cantilever Holder Assembly.
They can be ordered direct from Jico in Japan, but if you're in the USA, then LP Gear is a better option, they cost slightly less at LP Gear, and shipping times of course will be quicker.
The one quality I've usually experienced with many Shure Cartridges, is they are a little noisy in the groove. The SAS Stylus should lower this groove noise, typical to how other fine Cartridges perform using a Line Contact-Micro Line Stylus. Mark |
Markd51: Pretty much what I anticipate, with hopefully a little more openess in the harmonics through increased groove depth. The type 111 is certainly not lacking in detail, and the EPA-500 presents a with a high degree of resolution. If, as I expect, the SAS will diminish a sense of dryness "a mile wide but only an inch deep" I'll be pleased. Setup has not been a problem for me, I appreciate the heads-up with this stylus. Thanks for the add'l input. |
Dear friends: I replaced too the VMR for a M97xE.
Do you know if there is a Jico SAS stylus replacement for the M97 through LPGear? even if was not designed expresly for the 97?
regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Hello Raul my friend,
As I understand it, the Jico N-97 SAS available from LP Gear fits the older M-97 perfectly, but on the newer M-97xE requires some minor trimming to fit properly.
And as I understand it, the Damping Brush that comes on the Jico SAS replacement is not quite as robust as the original Shure Damping Brush. Probably for good reason. as the Jico replacement is probably a more delicate affair.
I've heard some mixed results of the Jico SAS on board the M-97xE, mostly positive, saying less inner groove distortion, and better clarity, but some others seemed to believe the Jico SAS was less forgiving with poorly recorded vinyl, but shined nicely with high quality vinyl.
As of late, I haven't heard very much good about quality control with these south of the border Shure Cartridges, so if a replacement Stylus is needed, one might be better with the higher quality Jico, versus Shure factory replacement.
There's much writtn about the Jico SAS over at AudioKarma. A simple search of "Jico SAS" will bring up quite a few threads. Hope this helps Raul, Mark |
Dear Markd51: Thank you a lot. I will read on AudioKarma and I will try with that Jico SAS.
Btw, I don't use the damping brush on Shure or my Stanton cartridges,I prefer with out it. It seems to me that the very sensitive microphone that it is what is the cartridge take some " sound " from the damping brush due to the friction between it and the record.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
The Shure V-15 series is highly overrated, and the Series Type III with the JICO SAS stylus replacement is abominable. If I were you, I would send me a private email right away and let me take any V-15 you have off your hands.
J/K
Dave |
Dave,
Thirty to fifty years ago engineers at Shure, Stanton, Ortofon, Dual, Garrard, Thorens and the like simply didn't understand what makes for great vinyl lp reproduction like "we" do now.
Get over it and move on ;) |
If you can spend a bit more, the Soundsmith retip is an alternative.
There is a thread on Audiogon somewhere about this. |
I recieved the SAS stylus for my V15-111 two days ago and am hugely pleased with the performance. The sense of grainy midrange was corrected by the addition of a line/power conditioner. A remarkable improvment in texture was observed before the new stylus was installed.
The JICO replacement offers several differences from either the stock stylus or the Saunders elliptical. The cantilever is (Thanks Mark) a boron tube bonded to the inside of an aluminum section. It is supported by a rubber damper at the end of a tensioning holder which appears to be a rigid foam which fills the sleeve. Through this holder a suspension wire restrains the cantilever from longitudinal movement. Detected resonance, to my ears, is nonexistant.
The stylus itself is radiused on both sides, front and back, leaving a razor thin portion across its width in contact with the groove. It also seats very snugly into the cartridge body. I needed to remove the arm wand to confirm it was properly installed.
On inital playback (Alan Parsons, "I, Robot") clarity in the upper registers was immediately apparent, but I didn't find the same presence in the bass response. Within two hours of playing time the suspension loosend up and tonality became integrated across the entire range.
The recordings I use to check alignment are Steely Dan "Babylon Sisters" (shake it), first track. No sibilance. Santana "Abraxas", sustained guitar note two minutes into "Incident at Nashabur", no distortion, and side two of Vangelis "Chariots of Fire" where halfway through, single notes of multiple insturments played forte can blow the stylus out of the groove if VTF is incorrect.
In the seventh measure of Babylon Sisters, I actually looked for the triangle when it was struck on the first count, the presence was startling.
I cannot support this, but I do have the feeling that this is appropriate for low mass/high compliance applications only, I have visions of vinyl curly fries on the record from the tiny stylus at high tracking force. If the SAS stylus will do for my AKG P8E what it has done for the Shure, I'll have another on order soon. Please keep in mind I don't pretend to be qualified to review, these are only my impressions.
|
I replaced a recently broken in M97xe stylus, which I heard is a big deal with the 97xe, with the Jico S.A.S. today. The first albums I played were Fleetwood mac and Steely Dan's greatest hits, I was in love with it! It blew the stock Shure needle away. Then I played some albums that a bit worn and some poorly produced albums and I was a little bummed. With good albums the sas is GREAT, with poorly produced or worn albums it seems to be little or no improvement. As with all audio equipment the better it is the cleaner it is, if you put shit in you get shit out. You can't polish a turd. Overall I play albums that are in good shape and well produced, so I would buy the SAS again in a second.
Hope this helped. |
Regards, Blondskier7: Caution! The SAS stylus has cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of, well, a lot. It is said that familiarity breeds contempt. In this instance 35 years of familiarity had engendered complacency. Although some components have stood the test of time well, what was TOTL to a recent graduate in 1978 bears small resemblence to gear now offered. The JICO micro ridge varient revealed, in particular, advances in speaker design. An upgrade there led to a year of chasing the "weak link" so my suggestion to you is to restore the OE stylus to the M97xE, forget any improvment you heard and buy a nice new car with the $ you'll save.
Peace, |
I scored a shure V15 IV with original stylus and jico sas!
Cheap!
You can imagine my excitement... After following the MM vs MC
thread for awhile!
It does sound good! But it still ain't in the same league as the dl103r
With level II soundsmith ruby cantilever...
Sigh... Am I doing something wrong?
Methinks I shall be listing the Shure soon. |
Regards, Hxt1: Shure recommends 4-500pF cap. At 100k Ohms res., hf/low level detail is quite good. Strong bass if VTA is slightly heel down, helps in taking bite out of the mids, too. Otherwise the Shure will sound brittle. Current passion is for a Signet TK5ea cart/AT155LC stylus, best when loaded at the other end of the range, 47k & 100pf. As you're probably aware, getting this right with MM's is a must.
Peace, |
Jico SAS stylus for the Shure M97xE is no longer acceptable as a replacement for the original stylus ...period!
The manufacturing of this once desirable replacement is nowhere near usable anymore.
They allow the bonding agent i.e. glue to be applied to both sides (Top & Down) of the stylus. Even where the SAS tip is bonded to the shank; although you can't see the tip. I could not see anything showing at all is crazy. My first one had the needle covered so much I thought they had send a dirty built-up used stylus. I could not clean it, so got a microscope and wow what a mess. At hundreds times of the microscope, I SAW the tip poking out.
Glue on everything. I complained and sent pictures, they replaced it. The next one was even worst. Jico claimed the minimum clear stylus is .14mm and the one sent back was .15mm showing.
A couple turns on the slights dusty record and the stylus is pushed up and out of the groove; Unbelievable. With the unaided eye you can't see the needle or shank at all. I'm not going to play/use the 2nd stylus from Jico as I can't see the tip of the stylus either. What a painful and costly mistake. $75.00 (USD) in lost money on just shipping fees.
Jico will take the stylus back, but I've lost. The price at Jico is $167.00 USD and $189.95 in USA at turntableneedles. |
Jico SAS stylus for the Shure M97xE is no longer acceptable as a replacement for the original stylus ...period!
The manufacturing of this once desirable replacement is nowhere near usable anymore.
They allow the bonding agent i.e. glue to be applied to both sides (Top & Down) of the stylus. Even where the SAS tip is bonded to the shank; although you can't see the tip. I could not see anything showing at all is crazy. My first one had the needle covered so much I thought they had send a dirty built-up used stylus. I could not clean it, so got a microscope and wow what a mess. At hundreds times of the microscope, I SAW the tip poking out.
Glue on everything. I complained and sent pictures, they replaced it. The next one was even worst. Jico claimed the minimum clear stylus is .14mm and the one sent back was .15mm showing.
A couple turns on the slights dusty record and the stylus is pushed up and out of the groove; Unbelievable. With the unaided eye you can't see the needle or shank at all. I'm not going to play/use the 2nd stylus from Jico as I can't see the tip of the stylus either. What a painful and costly mistake. $75.00 (USD) in lost money on just shipping fees.
Jico will take the stylus back, but I've lost. The price at Jico is $167.00 USD and $189.95 in USA at turntableneedles. |
