http://www.cymbiosis.com/kiseki-cartridges/
Anyone Ever Figure Out Who Really Designs And Build the Kiseki Cartridges?
As you know, in 2011 these cartridges were reborn. I have never been able to read who actually designs and builds these cartridges. Oh I read the back stories on their page, and I am a bit put off by some of the "mystique" or hype surrounding certain build aspects. Diamonds polished by human hair? I dunno. But with that being said, I still want to own one, just to fill a long standing question of how does a Kiseki perform?
So I am tentatively planning on ordering a Purpleheart in the coming days. But like everyone else, I really wonder who designed and builds them. One thing I notice is the internal impedance is much higher than what is considered the top tier modern MC’s. The Koetsu are 5 ohms, ZYX 4 ohms, Ortofon A95 or Winfeld TI are 5 ohms, Lyra 8 ohms, Benz Micro wood 12 ohms. The Purpleheart is listed at 42 ohms, and the only higher internal impedance cartridges I find are from Hana, Clearaudio, a couple of the Denon, and that is it in a basic search.
Has anyone ever heard any credible information on who builds and designed this cartridge?
And out of curiosity, anyone ever heard of who builds the Sumiko Pearwood or the Palo Santos?
Does not design and build. When you read the history, Herman sent 6 cartridge bodies out to 3 cartridge makers, and that is all the backstory we get. Happened in a reaction to losing distributorship of the Koetsu line in Europe. http://kiseki-eu.com/how-it-all-started/ |
Levinson discovered Takeda san (Miyabi) ordered the cart and sold under his own name. Krell deed the same by the same Takeda. Marovski ordered by Coral (MC 82) and sold in USA under the name ''MIT''. The difference with Herman van den Dungen was the reason. Herman's was revenge against Sugano's way of doing business.. |
If it were me, I would only wonder whether there are any similarities between an "old" Kiseki Purpleheart and the new revival of the Purpleheart, with respect to construction and performance parameters, before investing. Chances are, the resemblance is limited. So, you would be buying the name only, if you buy a new Purpleheart. (Well, I guess the body of the new one is made of purpleheartwood, like the original. That is something, at least.) I always thought that the KP was made by Sugano before he started up Koetsu. Beyond that, I had no reason to care. The old KP always had a good reputation for sounding good, however. Can you find out about weight, compliance, voltage output, cantilever type, stylus shape, inductance, etc, for old vs new? Did the old KP have such a high internal resistance as you mention for the new one? The high resistance suggests high-ish inductance compared to most LOMCs. |
Well the first review about the first Kiseki (the Blue) used the metaphorical expression ''Koetsu killer'' to describe the cart. The reviewer had no idea that this was the actual intention of Van den Dungen who was back then Koestu importer and very angry at Sugano san because this Japanese ''san'' wanted payment in advance but then forget to deliver the carts... Among different possible inspirations one should also count revenge. Van Dungen thought in terms of ''parts'' and ''wholes'' and decided to design the body in Holland and order the parts (aka the generator) in Japan where also some unknown ''san'' would put them together. The Dutch have an impressive painter tradition so the body got expected color and shape. But after the so called ''CD revolution'' some or many (?) bodies where left in Holland because there was no demand for Kiseki cats. Those ''left overs'' are recently rediscovered so , depending form the amount, two or three so called ''limited editions'' are produced. To use Lew's description in term of ''old'' and ''new'' the real question at present is who has put the parts together by the ''new Kiseki's''? Assuming that the old one has passed away the further question is if the ''new one'' is as capable as the old one? Anyway I share Lew';s skeptical assumption that the new KP sounds as good as the old one. |
Wow, Nandric. Your knowledge of this history is impressive. Would I be correct in now thinking that the old and new KP ought to be quite alike in terms of construction? Perhaps Mr. Van den Dungen was consternated that fate should have endowed him with such a ponderous name, suggesting long term incarceration in a dreary cell. This no doubt caused him to be short-tempered with the revered Sugano-san. |
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Spoke with a guy who I use for retipping cartridges. When I asked him about what he has seen inside the first generation Kiseki cartridges, he says the internal architecture looks like both a Koetsu and a Supex. Since
Van den Dungen was looking for an alternative builder/supplier for the Kiseki cartridge that he wanted to sell against a Koetsu, it seems like Supex or a Supex related employee would be a logical choice. It also seems to make sense that the new Kiseki uses a different builder and layout as Supex is no more. Of course this is not a definitive answer, but it seems to be one based on experience and observation. |
I also learned much about (MC) carts from my retipper and friend Axel Schurholz. He had the need to complain about his (many) customers and supplier while I wanted ''friend prices'' for my, as it is called, ''refurbishing''. A kind of mutual interest . He hated emails but enjoyed our (phone) conversations. Because his company was ''one man affair'' I suggested to him to use his wife as secretary who would answer the emails. BTW I told him about dissatisfaction in our forum about his ''communication''. His answer was that his wife has no idea about carts so he would need to explain to her what to say to the customers which would cost him more time then by answering those emails himself. But I also learned from logicians that names are not predicative. That is why Quine wrote about ''primacy of predicates'' . So in our context it is curious that we (me included) want to know ''who the guy is'' who put together those Kiseki's. There are however some differences in the way we describe the things. Say ''designer'' like J. Carr, Van den Hul, etc. produce different ''emotive meaning'' then ''the guy who put (parts) together''. Van den Hul get ''his parts'' from Benz while Benz produces all (MC) parts except styli and cantilevers. Even the Chinese discovered Benz as supplier and ask curious prices foe their ''new china'' bodies. However van den Dungen bodies are work of art while we want our ''precious'' not only to sound good but also to look nice. That this guy is very smart one can ''see'' from his attention to the details. Even the value of ''myths'' by selling carts. So he never answered the question about the name of Kiseki's actual designer. The so called ''mystery'' is an important part of any myth. |
Well I know from other sources about problems by polishing diamonds. The first Van den Hul stylus design for Gyger (aka Gyger I) was so complex that the fall out was huge. Then the second design (aka Gyger II) was simpler but also difficult to produce (aka ''polish''). This explains Gyger ''S'' which Benz and Allearts used. The curious thing is that Van den Hul sold more ''van den Hul'' styli than Gyger. However he never mentioned vdH I. II or ''S'' in order not cause confusion (grin). But sometime the ''soft forces'' work better than ''hard kind''. So, who knows, soft, nice , blond hair may work better than diamond particles. |