I regret, the remark I made earlier, "I know what I'm talking about". I should have said, I know what I'm hearing in my system based on trying various things with my wall mount set-up:
VPI Classic 3 Sig SE 3" maple platform Symposium Ultra Stillpoints Ultra SS Edensound Terestone footers Machina Dynamica Super Stiff Springs MANA Acoustics wall mounting system, (has extreme flexibility, can swap in and out various aftermarket footers such as Stillpoints, Edensound, spikes, etc....)
a combination of all the above, switched in and out.
I do consider the springs a "must have" for a wall mounting system.
I've personally always found that with tts especially, "life made easier" by having the flexibility to level the tt without all of the hassle of, in the case of the springs, finding the exact positioning underneath the tt for the correct level to be achieved.
It could be argued either way as to what is best, a platform under the tt or just the springs. Much more flexibility using a platform. I've made my choice and I'm very happy with it.
I was just making a rough calculation, in my head, regarding the money I've invested in audio over the last 30 years. For what it's worth:
Components/cables vs. Isolation = pretty much 50/50 Acoustic treatments, much less but have a MAJOR effect, way beyond their relative price points. The effect on musical satisfaction is out of this world when done right.
Music vs. equipment, right now, probably 60/40, leaning towards equipment. This will surely change in the opposite direction.
Also, to show I'm a believer in Geoffkait's springs, in addition to my tt set-up. I've incorporated them in my amp/power conditioner/rack set-up.
I am using a Solid Steel 5.2 rack, dedicated to my amp and my Hydra. I use a 3" maple platform with 3 Mapleshade carpet piercing footers, then I've drilled 1/8" deep mating holes for another 1& 1/2" maple platform to accommodate the (4) Super Stiff Springs. This is my support structure for the Solis Steel rack. (Still, within my rack, I have a platform for these components and high quality footers.)
Upon making these changes to accommodate the (SSPs), my system evolved tremendously!
I'm thinking about doing a similar thing with my dual subs.
You made a comment on TT Isolation thread, remarking about having things moving in several opposing direction/motions.
When I made reference to that thread, your first remark was "good catch". You later posted "I dunno, what did I say in that thread"?
Some of us, including me who wonder, may find (your own) statements in conflict.
Once you seemed to recognize my remembering something you said, then you ask (me) what you said.
This is very confusing.
(I like your products that I've tried. I'm not bashing. I am just asking for clarity? To at once make a remark, seemingly admitting what you said in a recent thread, then asking me later, to tell you what you said in that thread is remarkable.)
astro58go 31 posts 07-03-2016 1:09pm "To address the question I had above...
You made a comment on TT Isolation thread, remarking about having things moving in several opposing direction/motions."
Sorry, but that doesn’t help me. I post frequently on isolation threads of which there are a bunch. If I said something that you think conflicts with something else I said I’m afraid you’ll have to be a little more specific.
"When I made reference to that thread, your first remark was "good catch". You later posted "I dunno, what did I say in that thread"?"
I originally thought you were referring to a remark about why the "twist" direction for isoaltion systems is problematic. At this point in time I still don’t know what comment that has upset you.
Astro also wrote,
"Some of us, including me who wonder, may find (your own) statements in conflict."
Actually it might only be you. :-). Just joking.
Astro also wrote,
"Once you seemed to recognize my remembering something you said, then you ask (me) what you said.
This is very confusing.
"(I like your products that I’ve tried. I’m not bashing. I am just asking for clarity? To at once make a remark, seemingly admitting what you said in a recent thread, then asking me later, to tell you what you said in that thread is remarkable.)"
OK, why don’t you post the entire comment your referring to so at least I know what in tarnation you’re referring to. I don’t actually see any reason for all the drama. If I've made some huge error or made conflicting statements I promise I'll eat a bug.
Your Marshall has a loudspeaker system along with the valves support so in theory your predetermined anti-vibration approach to audio reproduction should also work with stage gear as well?
Why not test the actual live dynamic which is you and your instrument. Put a pro-vibration Sistrum Platform to the real test - under both the Peavey and Marshall amplifiers.
The Peavey will surprise you and the Marshall will put you in a state where you have never been as a player. Both amps will achieve greater attack, extended decays and more sustain than you ever experienced prior. You will easily take both amps to a higher level of volume as well and will hear more of the Marshall along with a lot more of what your personal talents are actually capable of in performance - of this we are extremely confident.
Based on our experience spending quite a few years working with top musicians in both electronic and acoustic instrument mediums, the winner of the two formats can and will easily be determined by your own fingertips, gut feel and ears. Invite a few players over for testing as they too will enjoy the event.
There is no difference between stage amplification, loudspeaker s and hi-fi gear as they all function the same and relate to the same sciences of audio reproduction. The only change for this test is the source.
You will easily determine if you prefer live dynamics from high speed energy movement or isolated dead harmonics. You will no longer make decisions based on a couple of meaningless foot stomping tests, the rhetoric of some self proclaimed experts on vibration and/or shilling manufacturers who continuously propose never ending arguments and of course those people who always avoid answering direct questions on Internet forums.
If you know any cellist, upright or electric bass players who are interested in testing our products we would like to hear from them too.
One thing is for certain, you will know if anti- or the pro-vibration approach to vibration management is the finer.
We learned through our experience, you cannot fool a musician.
Call me personally or write us from our website so we can arrange the test.
It seems to me that my postings above would give you a (reason) to look back at the comments you made.
Why am I seemingly now, somehow, a person who has posted favorable results of your product, now, under scrutiny (by you) to prove what you previously said?
The proof is in the reading of (your past posts). I've posted where your remarks could easily be found and earlier you seemed to admit by you stating "good catch". It's not up to me to do more than what I've thoughtfully posted. Being a fan of your own products, you still want to make me prove what you said in the past and then make me prove how it's relevant to this discussion? When you could easily look into this yourself, instead, you choose to put some sort of, as you state, "drama" imposed by me?
As a prospective consumer of your products, this action by you, that could have been abated by you, would make me think twice about purchasing from you.
"geoffkait, It seems to me that my postings above would give you a (reason) to look back at the comments you made."
You haven’t told me what’s bothering you yet. I gave you every opportunity. Apparently you’d rather play games.
Astro wrote,
"Why am I seemingly now, somehow, a person who has posted favorable results of your product, now, under scrutiny (by you) to prove what you previously said?"
What did I previously say? Is it a secret?
Astro also wrote,
"The proof is in the reading of (your past posts). I’ve posted where your remarks could easily be found and earlier you seemed to admit by you stating "good catch". It’s not up to me to do more than what I’ve thoughtfully posted. Being a fan of your own products, you still want to make me prove what you said in the past and then make me prove how it’s relevant to this discussion? When you could easily look into this yourself, instead, you choose to put some sort of, as you state, "drama" imposed by me?"
I already addressed your weird questions. Save the drama for yo mama.
Astro then wrote,
"As a prospective consumer of your products, this action by you, that could have been abated by you, would make me think twice about purchasing from you."
Don’t worry, I won’t be selling to you again. Actually I don't sell to anyone involved in threads of mine.
Astro, I see things differently than you in this way: I chose to discuss the subject of this posting from a theoretical point of view, addressing the "why" of isolation. You prefer a statement of how a certain approach or product had what kind of affect on a commenters own system. What lead me to try roller bearings was Barry Diament’s discussion of isolation on his website, not a statement by him about how bearings affected his system.
When I read about the theory behind an approach or product, I decide to either give it a try, or not, based on my own personal "sniff" test. Reading someone else say how a product did this or that to their system in florid audiophile terms doesn’t necessarily mean much to me.
I mentioned air bearings because I have Townshend Audio Seismic Sink platforms (the original "air" version, not the current "spring" version) under my turntable, CD/SACD player, tube phono pre-amp, tube line-stage pre-amp, and tube power amp. I mentioned roller bearings because I have both Symposium Acoustics and Ingress Engineering bearings under same. Yes, I recommend anyone looking for good isolation consider looking into these products. I wouldn’t dream of describing how they affected the sound of my system, but by discussing isolation itself I attempted to say why they might be of benefit in someone else’s.
With regards to a wooden base, I think you will find that the base will have greater effect if combined with another material such as aluminum or steel. The two layers will have different resonant frequencies and when in contact with each other will rob each other of that energy- the result being that the platform will considerably more 'dead'.
The device (DC player, preamp, turntable) should then be rigidly coupled into the platform via points of some sort. This will maximize the effect of the platform.
I have had great success ditching the mdf and i replaced the shelves with 1/2 "thick steel then audiopoints ,stand is filled with micro ball bearings on audiopoints again i use them on everything including my furman p2400 which is also outboard on 3/4 "steel with audiopoints same for my outboard power supply from my amp
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