Any one want a laugh????

tim did you not know that rolling stone magazine is only good for finding out how much weed it takes to get stoned. they can line up and kiss everybody on audiogons ass. besides 2k for them is all they can hear anyway due to the fact that 120 db for hours ruins hearing.

Kirk, while i agree with both your and Tim's point of view, i have to say that i don't know of too many people with systems that can do, let alone sustain, 120 db's at their listening position. Brief peaks don't count in my book : ) Sean
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I trust their political veiws also, ha ha ha!

Consumer report's audio issue is always a good one too. They state that you get no audible advantage with separates versus a receiver. And this wasn't implicitly stated, they flat out said it. I think they acknowledged it measured better (across the board in every way) but you can't hear the difference. And the thing that really blew my mind--they actually rated the Bose lifestyle 3 piece system jobby as Number 1 in their face-off/showdown--above the NHT Superzero/subsat system (got like #3)! They can't be listening to the stuff and whatever measurements they take have to be useless as anything (improperly taken and improperly interpreted). I just don't see (or hear) how a couple of 2.5" drivers equivalent to what you find in your TV can be "high-fidelity" and pass subjective and objective criteria--its...??? And mind you I'm very conservative as far as audiophiles go-I'll pay thousands for a piece of gear, but I don't/won't buy fancy audio cables, tweako potions, vibration controls, etc. I got kimber 4pr running from my hybrid vacuum tube/solid-state amplifier and that's only because it was free with a previous speaker purchase.

I think the consumer report's report of Bose is political. The two share some history. As for sustaining 120db, there are plenty of auto systems that can do it.

Sean, you've forgotten about Cerwin-Vega--their top-of-the-line's usually carry 100+ db sensitivities and no less than 4 ohm load for $700 a pair (3 way w/ 15" low frequency driver). 100 half decent watts should get your there.

I have not read the article, but maybe they conducted their comparison testing in the bathroom. I came to find out years ago to plan my A/V gear upgrades with my house upgrades (moves) so I could improve the listening environment as well as my gear. I feel that the room is a piece of the system as is any other component. I try to keep all of mine matched. I did get to a point where I could just not tell the difference with higher quality components any longer. Fortunately I realized long ago I do not have great ears! I use high mid-range equipment like ADA Cinema Reference, Nautilus 801's, and Mark Levinson amps (not the reference). I think they are pretty well matched with my source components and accessories in the same range. Their certainly is alot better stuff out there, some of which I have auditioned. I just could not tell the difference. Maybe it's time for another room or house upgrade. Or maybe the medical profession could provide me with a hearing upgrade. Now that's an expensive A/V system upgrade. So, maybe that is their point or lack their of. A Bose system in the bathroom heard through a hearing aid is pretty darn good. Why spend more.

I think thats great ! Anyone who think that is possible should head down to Cosco for a great deal on some 4 foot high Speakers with a 15" woofer for $ 99.00 Pr along with the $ 199.99 500 watt receiver. I helped a friend from work buy a NHT/Velodyne/HK/Kenwood System Which destroys any bose system and it cost hundreds less. By the way the 12 " tall NHT super ones weigh about the same as the 4 foot 4 way Costco Speakers. Yes that "little" speaker cost $ 350.00 Pr.
But they make music. I suggest you find a friendly retailer or a local audiophile and bring a well recorded CD or clean LP and listen to a $ 10,000.00 system (not a $ 10,000 CD player guys) Sit back , crank it up , and close your eyes. If you don't "see" the diference . Head over to Costco or Circut City on the way home ... they also have one hundred disc CD changer for $ 149.00 PS remember that $ 10,000.00 system can be bought used on Audiogon or Ebay for under $ 5,000.00 but please get advise from an audiophile not a magazine before you waste $ 2,000.00 on a system that would sell used for $500.00

Ezmerelda and Ohlala, i was waiting for someone to bring up Cerwin Vega / Klipsch, etc... type systems.

Outside of some esoteric horn based systems, i stand by my statements. the MASS majority of systems won't come close to supporting 120 db's in a reasonable sized room at the listening position on an average basis. Believe me, i have made MANY, MANY measurements running both MEGA watts ( multiple hundreds ) and HIGH efficiency speakers ( 100+ db's ).

When i discussed the subject of MAX SPL with Richard Vandersteen, he stated that his $10,000 model 5's could easily cope with most forms of music with no stress. I asked him what SPL levels he was talking about. He considered momentary peaks of 115 db's ( at what distance i don't know ) to be more than adequate. I then responded that i thought that this was inadequate and that i was looking for data based on AVERAGE listening levels and not momentary peaks. He basically told me that i was a nut and that listening levels that high were basically unobtainable with consumer grade equipment.

If you don't believe this, look at what are considered to be some of the finest woofers / subwoofers available. Most have a REAL hard time doing 115 db's at 1 meter. We are talking about drivers that are built like TANKS, measurements based on a 3' distance and HUNDREDS of watts. How well do you think a fragile tweeter or midrange is going to hold up with power levels in that range at a distance of 8' - 12' ???

Believe me, most speakers, even those that are considered "efficient", run into a brick wall at about 106 - 110 db's on average at 8' - 10' distances. Running a much lower average and "pulsing" the system can get you relatively high peaks for VERY short term. To me, that is neither "real world" or how most "high volume" or "intense blasts" occur. I know of no natural or man made high intensity sound / music that lasts a matter of microseconds. Sean
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Somehow I didn't think kirk390 was refering to stereo systems. He didn't acutally refer to a stereo system. I assumed he was refering to live rock concerts. So I stand by kirk930's statement.

yes travis you are the man. i wondered who would finally get it. these idiots at rolling stone have seen to many live concerts without earplugs. i have been to a few myself but never without earplugs. concert systems are capable of 120 db at 1 watt 1 meter . so what kind of volume are they capable of with 10s of thousands of watts?

"My ears are SO ringing dude! What a great concert, man! Pass the weed, I gotta deadline about how stupid audiophiles are."

Suddenly, I'm a frigging genius! Who knew?