Hi, Tireguy:
Just for the record, Vandersteen 1C, 2Ce, and 3A speakers have the binding posts mounted about 2/3 of the way up the back from the floor, while the Model is a bit lower. Frankly, I wish they were closer to the floor, since it would take less speaker cable to reach the posts -- but Vandersteen put the posts where they are due to the location of the crossovers. So, I guess having the speaker posts either too low and too high both present disadvantages ... |
Just for clarification, the binding posts are on the bottom wall of the speakers not the lower part, they are dead square in the middle of the bottom(ie underneath)!! what a pain |
Tim,
That's one of the reason i sold my Opus and changed with Venture. My new cable won't fit anyway on the Opus.
Do you have the same Opus ? |
Tim; I can see where the terminal location on your Avalons could make changing speaker cables a bitch-- and those are heavy speakers. The Vand. 5s have terminals about half way up the back panel, and I've always considered that a downside as I need at least two more feet of cable per speaker, at least when using a single amp. Well, the upside is that the Avalons sound great. Right?
But you must have just has a "cable changing session"-- have a cold one and listen to some tunes. Good Luck, and Cheers. Craig |
Tireguy,
Lighten up a little you knew this when you bought the speakers. For what the Avalons provide you with in enjoyment of the music I myself put up with this small bother. It takes me no longer than 20 minutes to get my Arcus up and running again. At your young age you should enjoy it or you may end up with a tire around your belly! We will than call you tired guy |
I believe the terminals are placed on the bottom so that the crossover components can be better isolated. If you can access a cut away view of the speaker you'll see why. As a practical matter, I can see why you think it's a pain. |
I have Avalon speakers(Radian HC) and it takes me all of 7 minutes to change cables and return them to the original positions. I can't imagine how it can take you an hour and no I don't have a pit crew helping me. |
My Thiel 2.2's are the same way (as are all their other floorstanding models). I believe it's done mainly for a clean cosmetic appearance, and in this it succeeds. But it makes comparing cables a total pain in the ass - for changeover time, physical effort, and in consistent speaker positioning. It also puts the speakers' finish, not to mention the owner's back, in some danger as well. Locating the jacks at the bottom of the rear would be better IMHO, appearances be damned. |
Some mixed feelings here, perhaps an hour is embelishing a little but it does take longer then 7 minutes(Scon90 that is simply amazing!!). Maybe I am being over dramatic about this but it does seem to be a pain- I am not the only one who feels this way. Lifting them and what not is not an issue I am actually VERY healthy(those who know me help me out here ;) albeit perhaps a little lazy. ~Tim
(edit)
Scon90- How do you get your speakers perfectly placed after the tipping thing? it takes me a while to get them close and then some tweeking for the next few days. I am thinking marble or sandstone slabs may help-with the spikes going from the speakers onto the slabs- because you would have the right toe and be darn close location wise. hmmmm something new to think about. |
I don't mind this having cable posts on the bottom. I don't change cable that often. I prefer the looks. I prefer keeping connectors away form children and pets. I prefer that it allows for shorter cables (for me). |
Hi Tim- I can commiserate with you. I was auditioning various SC's a while back while owning Eidolons and it was cumbersome to say the least. The interaction between pair of firehoses,er, FIM Gold SC's, the placement of binding posts on the Eidolons and myself resulted in bent binding posts. Fortunately the Avalons aren't that heavy, but the sequence you describe I've been through, and it is indeed a pain in the ass. As long as the pleasure/pain ratio favors the numerator, I guess we just tolerate it :-)BTW-Survive your night on the town with the demented ones? |
I feel your pain, and my Thiel 2.3's likely a lot lighter than those Avalons. A huge pain in my ass and, if you ask me, an idea that falls within the realm of too clever by half. |
As already mentioned in other posts; I have Thiel speakers -
a pair of 3.5s - and have to deal with all the associated
problems of installing new cables and then re-positioning
the speakers. This is made even more difficult as I have
a carpeted listening room and the speakers have spikes installed - so I have to be careful not to rip or shred the
carpet. And to make matters even more difficult - I am
looking forward to moving up to Thiel 3.6 speakers this fall; which weigh about 100 lbs. each! |
Hi Tim, I used to own Thiel 3.6 speakers and believe me I know how it feels like when you have to change the speaker cables. Unfortunately I can't help you with physically doing it.
In regards to putting the speakers back in place after you change it,if you mean just putting it on the same position I may have a simple solution by just placing a marker (ie. electric tape)on the floor in front and one side of the speakers before you change speaker cables.
I hope this helps. |
Normally I have to enlist the aid of my 16 year old son to tip back my Thiel CS7.2s so I have enough room to work. By myself I have to tip them over on their side. They're so heavy (~170lbs) that the indentations from the spikes are very clearly imprinted in the carpet, so its easy to get them back into the original position. What I really don't care for with this design is the fact that you have to rotate the spades 180 degrees to fit. On thick/stiff cables, or cables such as my Oracles w/network box, this can be a real pain. The new Thiel 1.6s now have the posts on the lower back. Fortunately I don't change cables all that often, but do take them off every 3/4 months to clean the connections. |
Tim,
My Kharma CE 2.2s weigh a 100-lbs each. The binding posts are 3.5 inches above the bottom edge of speakers and roughly 5-inches above the floor. They are on spikes, which rest on discs. I experience no problems in changing wires. I'm very surprised to hear that you actually have to tip the Avalons to change wires -- I'd say that's a design flaw and unacceptable. |
Tim,
I have similar objections to the posts on the Avalons, but it is nice for the finish and probably somehow contributes to some element of the sound (though the latter is a guess). I will definitely consider Avalon as my main option for my upcoming upgrade nonetheless.
After swappng cables, testing my old speakers, and so on, I got tired of the re-positioning thing too. Its easy to get it close with little tricks, but you inevitably spend days tweaking to get it just right. I finally gave up and decided to streamline the process. I purchased a corner brace (steel, about 18 inches long 90 degrees along its length with several holes). I applied felt along each surface and centered a plumb line. I then stretched 3 meters of line, looped the line around a clip (mountain climbing clip) and dropped a plumb from the other end of the string. So, now I can center the brace on the top of the speaker, hold the line straight to the tweeter, and mark where the plumb falls. The system has made it incredibly easy to change setup and get positioning correct to a very fine degree (measuring at 9 feet away allows aligning the speakers relative to center with great precision). Changing cables on the Avalons & repositioning (or merely adjusting my other speakers) now really does take about 15 minutes.
You're right that it is a pain to change cables on Avalons, but I always found repositioning to be a hassle before... and I still love the sound!
Good luck,
Jacob |
The binding posts on the Eidolons, and I assume the Opus, are actually beneath the cabinet on the base of the units, not easily accessible unless you tip or actually lay the speaker on it's side.They're not low, they're below. The Eidolons weighed in at around 140 lbs each, which isn't bad ( my rockports are 400+ lbs each) but somewhat cumbersome to futz with. They are great sounding speakers, perhaps just not the most user friendly. |
Well it seems to be agreed that it is a huge pain!!
Rmml-appreciate the offer- and the cables are sounding better with only 15 hours on them.
Mes- We made it, those guys are too old to party hard!! Hell Bill fell asleep while listening- which I didn't think was possible; like falling asleep during sex, just not a possability at my age!! Thanks for asking- shame you couldn't have made it out, maybe next time.
~Tim |
I hope to make it next time, and I'm MUCH younger than those guys :-) |
My Wilson Benesch speakers have the same feature. Tri-wire binding posts on the bottom of the speaker. I have to lift each 125 pound speaker and lay it on its side (on pillows) to access the posts.
When I first got the speakers, I thought the feature was cool but after making many speaker cable changes, I find the feature tremendously annoying. |
