Unless I'm much mistaken the option is there for system matching. If you've an active Pre with plenty of gain it'll probably sound better via the low gain. If on the other hand you've the likes of a passive Pre the extra gain may help to drive power amps which are usually designed to be run with more gain on the input signal. |
I do too, but I wasn't sure if that had to do with the position of my attenuator being further advance to the 12-2 position, or if the lower gain setting had inherently lower S/N, as would be the case with a preamplifier (I think). |
Hello Pubul57,
I'm not aware of the technical differences but I do get better sound with my EMM Dac-2 gain setting set to the lower position.
best,
Tom |
Is there a sonic advantage to using the low gain setting assuming it is sufficiently loud? Better S/N, etc. |
I do not see any need to give up my CDSA indefinitely. If something isn't broke, I won't fix it (especially in the audio arena). The CDSA is so articulate, I can understand lyrics I never could on recordings I've heard for decades.
But still the CDSA is natural. The strange digital artifacts on other players that I didn't know were there are gone on the CDSA. I have the metal-tray version, which is much quieter then earlier EMM transports. I do however, think the EMM SE separates (DCC2 + CDSD) are a little better, with an even more defined bass and slightly more forgiving in the highs of poor recordings. Both versions are wonderful.
I went through other players trying to save some money; I tried some Sonys, Accuphases, Meridians, some Mods, Playback Designs, old Calif. Audio Labs, and I just keep coming back to the EMMs. Nothing gives my the satisfaction of EMM, as it just gets to the heart of things for me. I've been playing with CD players since 1986.
The original DCC2/CDSD in 2004 had a special magic that finally convinced me digital had arrived and stopped my nostalgia for my old Vinyl days, but it still had some annoying glare. The SE versions fixed that and then I was hooked on EMM. |
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What is the purpose of the low and high gain settings? I can't imagine 4v is enough in almost any system. Some have said the higher setting sounds better, but not sure why that would be. Any thoughts? Consenus on the two settings? |
Obviously if you don't need the pre-amp functionality and the greater number of inputs, the single box player is the way to go. I got my DCC2 and used it for the pre amp as well (pretty good by the way!) until I purchased the Darts. If I had to do it all over again, I would go for the single box player (which was not around at the time), save the money and invest elsewhere. The sonic differences are likely to be minimal if they exist at all...and both are extremely good! |
Henry,
I haven't had the opportunity to hear the SE separates. Simply explained, they are basically the same except for very slight differences in power supplies (a single power supply used for both digital & analogue in the 1 box) and a single chassis w. no need for any connecting cables. It then gets down to money. That is a big difference. The SACD sound is certainly better than the non SE version. It is not huge, but a nice subtle improvement. It was excellent in the 1st place w. the separates. CD is still in the air as I don't find either truly special yet. I am still breaking in the CD section. |
Dgad, as you said you spoke with EMM, can you elaborate on exactly the difference in sound the for each? You mention only technical/design differences, but what are the sonic impacts...and are they noticable? We all know that power cables and interconnects can alter the sound. It's interesting to note that many comments written are similar, however the equipment its listened on is wildly differing!
One thing is true though, the burn-in time is 2-300 hours before the player stabilizes completely, for each CD and SACD circuits. Once that's behind you though, it's an absolutely remarkable player. It went miles past my prior player, Accuphase DP77, which was regarded in the German Stereo magazine listing as the topplayer since it came out in 2003. No doubt that for $10k this player is in a league of its own...despite some build/user frienliness weaknesses.
Regards
Henry |
Deshapiro: I agree. That would be an elegant solution for people who like the Meitner sound and want to add a PC front end. If they somehow allowed a digital stream through the player's USB port, even better (wishful thinking...) |
Now there is the reason for the price difference between the 1 box & separates. No matter as SACD is its strong suit above all and no SACD has a digital out that is not exclusive to themselves.
I heard the 70K DCS setup. Very good but what you get from EMM is close enough. Obviously 2 separate systems, but compared both to Vinyl & vinyl is better to my ears. |
I'd be more interested in this player if it had digital inputs.
David |
Henryhk,
Too late. Spoke w. EMM. Each has a benefit & loss compared to the other. Hence balancing each other out. Lack of need for cables improves things on the CDSA. The separate power supplies is a benefit on the separates. Sonically there are people who prefer both. Me, I am now using the CDSA. Very nice, but needs time. I happen to like its musicality overall. Still Vinyl rules. Just more resolution. I will report back in a month or so when I know more. |
Dgad...surely there are none. Only diff is with DCC2 u get preamp functionality and with DAC 6 more multi channel inputs |
Anyone compare the the EMM Separates?? Is there is a difference in sound? I am curious as to CD & to SACD if there is a difference between the EMM Separates SE verision & the One box. |
Hi Frank,
If u want the Acrolink, I can sell it to you.
It's almost brand new with original wooden box.
Even the plastic wrapper at the ends of the interconnects are still there.
Let me know. |
Thanks Arowana. Acrolink is one of the cables that I have been considering. I'll take a closer look at the Isopath. It's also half the price of Acrolink. Too bad they don't make speaker cable as well.
Frank |
Hi Frank,
I m using single ended. It's the Acrolink Mexcel 5100.
The Mexcel is a high bandwith cable and as u know it retails approx US 2,000 for 1m. The signature sound is silky with a slight emphasis on the mids. It has very gd weight and balance.
With the Isopath, though a little bloom is lost, I gained greater transparency and transient. Still it's very quiet.
I guess, this cable brings out the best in Kharma speakers. Fast and trasnsparent ans SWEET. |
Arowana. Which i/c's did the Isopath's replace? Are you using balanced or single ended? Could you tell us a little more about their sound compared to the one's they replaced?
FYI. Your CDSA is going to take 300 hours to get most of the way there and and another 200 before it's done.
Frank |
Dear Friends,
It has been 4 days since receiveing my new CDSA.
In the earlier home demo, i was using a cheap $5 powercord. When I hooked it up with the Kimber PK 14 (supplied), it was fantastic. The experience was so different from that I had earlier in the home demo.
The sound was very transparent, extended and sound stage was really deep.
I thought this was as gd as it gets until.............
I installed the EMM Labs Isopath interconnects!!!
For those of you that own any EMM products, pls, pls pls go try out the Isopath and I m sure u will be amazed. |
Georgemg. I agree with Snook2. I owned a AA Capitole Mk2 SE for 8 months and it was the best CD player i ever heard until i bought the Emm Labs. I loved the AA but wanted to have a great SACD source along with the CD capability, so i bought the CDSA-SE. The details and the micro and macrodynamics are incredible, certainly better than the Capitole. I think the soundstage is even wider (a strong attribute of the AA) and certainly deeper than the AA. |
Georgemg. The new emmlabs cdplayer is better than my previous audio aero mk II player. Detail and dynamics are much improved. That said it is still not close to good vinyl playback |
Hi Take5,
The demand must be very great, Do u know how many have been sold so far?
The Wadia, Meridian and MBL all sounded very similar as in all digital gear.
As mentioned, the experience with EMM was surprising. Alot more like comparing CD to vinyl.
I m using all RCA connections.
Waht is yr set up like? |
Hi Arowana,
You have a great set-up..I too am very interested in the CDSA but the dealer in Singapore does not have any demo units...all sold before they can demo it.... tough to make a decision unless I can hear it my system...
Some questions:
- what differences (sonic) did you hear between the 581 and the CDSA? My reference sounds to good player that I have heard are Meridian 800, MBL 1521/1511 and Reimyo DAP 777/Audio Note transport...have you heard any of these and is the sound close??
- are you running with Balanced or RCA connections?
- is the sound still changing or has it settled down now?
Would appreciate your comments...thank you |
I have one audio aero capitole mk2 direct in one amplifier audio aero capitle ( 55 watts clase A) + merlin vsm mxe- the best sound I have listened, but there is one oportunity to trade part of my equipments for EMM CDSA se + nagra PL L prealpfier- does someone compared emm cdsa se versus audio aero capitole mk2, in my city is impossible to compare. |
I have a demo of CDSA for 4 days. The unit was new right out of the box and sounded terrible at the dealers showroom and in my house. This is the same experience that I saw in your reviews: Sounding flat and bloted and non-musical. I almost gave up but played occationally for the next few days. To my surprised, it was improving every moment i continued to play it.
So much that I found the comments by my friends to be true: Very analogue, involving and a wonderful mids.
Details of instruments/voices had much more details, emotion and life like. Bass lines were like vinyl. (I audition the SME 30 and Basis 2500 signature recently.)
FYI, I also had the latest Wadia 581 on demo as well.
Well, it would seem that it requires to warm up for very long hours and probably will require a super long break in time. U will be rewarded. This is a rather unusual CD player as the character is so different from other high end players I have tested.... so non digital in character. It really brings my system up by 2 levels. I m using the following equipment:
Goldmund Eidos 18 CD/SACD
FM Acoustics 245 pre
Goldmund Telos 400 Mono blocks
Kharma 1.2 Speakers
Cables: FM Acoustics, Acrolink, Purist Audio |
Dear friends,
All the input in this forum is truely accurate.
I have a demo unit with me for abt 4 days. This is a new unit out from the box. It sounded horrible in the dealers showroom and initial start in my own home. After playing and leaving the power on for a couple of days, it was magical. Especially in the mids. The CDSA was exactly how my friends who owns the 2 box TPT and DA decribed, involving and very anlogue sounding. |
Look at this!!!!
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue30/emm.htm
Maurizio |
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No comparison with the Esoteric XO1 LE? |
I have the fortune of auditioning at home for the past week a new CDSA, and the blessing of a supportive wife whose ears are more musically tuned than mine. Equip: CJ PV14 preamp (Mullard 8080), MV60 (Mullard EL34s), Cardas cables, Piega C10Ltd floorstanding. After about 10 hours, I packed it up to be returned, and going back to my old Arcam FMJ CD23T, wife's immediate response was "where did the music go"?
Have nothing to compare it against, but next time I listen to the Wadia on another system, I'll know what to look for.
I do have a Mobile Fidelity Getz/Gilberto CD to compare with the same album in SACD. SACD is cleaner, the cymbal more palpable, more separation of the instruments/vocals. Listening now to all my redbook CDs though, the vocals have become more expressive and the slightest fluctuations of articulation and breaths are remarkably present. Complex passages are easily interpreted. Tight bass, dynamic range, very convincing presentation.
Makes CD sound much closer to vinyl, so wife supports the upgrade.
Shortcoming: cannot program tracks to playback |
My CDSA has now reached about 300 hours of burning in... the sound is really changed, the detail is incredible, the soundstage wide and the sound natural. I've never heard digital this way. Really wonderful. Don't judge it before burning is finished!!
I wonder how could be the SE combo!!
Maurizio |
Yes a comparison with the Esoteric XO1 LE would be very helpful!!! |
Just was fortunate to listen to it vs. my recently sold GNSC Reference Level modded Wadia 581. To me a no brainer: sonically both are equally good (outstanding) with the Wadia having more baseline control and the EmmLabs a tad smoother midrange. Design and finish (case work) are miles better with the Wadia. Would be interested if there are some CDSA users with equal/ different opinions as the CDSA only has had a few hous on it. Has anybody compared the CDSA to AA Prestige SE, dcs P-8i or Esoteric X-01 Ltd. ?Happy listening !
(set-up used: Ayon Falcon S (speakers), Nagra PL-P (pre), Ayon Spark (integrated), Ayre V-1xe (power amp)). |
SE version of EMMlabs gear needs relatively long period of break-in time. So, wait and see then you can hear real music.
I was really upset when my upgraded EMMlab SE gear sounds odd but 2 or 3 months later I didn't worry any longer. |
Just a slight off topic question on the EMM Labs CDSA...Where I am, the dealer is delaying bringing in this unit so I am unable to voice the unit...Read many good things about EMM LAbs but have not heard them before..
Great to hear that current owners are happy with the unit...what type of sound characteristics would this player be closest to??
For example, i recently heard the combo of Audio Note CDT3 and Reimyo DAC777, Naim CDS3 with Power Supply and MBL 1521/1511 combo...
Would the CDSA be close or better than any of the above..
Thanks!! |
My CDSA now has upwards of 200 hours on it. This unit is absolutely REMARKABLE !! The initial bass bloat which others have commented on and I heard early on is gone. The bass is now tight and tuneful. The overall presentation is breathtakingly natural, dare I say analog, sounding.
I most previously had the current version SE seperates, as well as the original non SE seperates before that. Each successive model improved significantly on the prior. I was able to A/B a fully broken in CDSA with the SE seperates both running into my Dartzeel pre-amp and I have to say I'm not sure which is better- it's that close. IMHO- if you have a pre-amp that you're happy with (the pre-amp section of the DCC2 SE is fantastic-BTW) get the CDSA. If you don't want to use a pre-amp the SE seperates are the way to go.
The CDSA @ $10k is a stone cold steal !! |
jeffreybowman2k interesting results!
Im interested in getting one of these players and your points kind of discourage me....Have you heard other EMM players?How does it compare with them? |
I had upgraded from the previous orginal to SE version of CDSC and DCC2 and the difference was signficant especially for redbook CDs. Looking at the website, it seems the new one box player of CDSA SE is merely that...a one box version....appears to basically same design & components. SE is basically SE. Now that I use another preamp, in hindsight probably should have gone for the one box player but at the time I didn't even know was coming out! In any case sound wise, I doubt there is a diffence as a front end: the DCC SE merely allows one to use its pre-amp functionality, which is no slouch either. Jtinn, I am correct in my understanding? |
I am willing to admit that i gave up on the CDSA too soon -- although i broke it in for over 50 hours as recommended by the retailer who sold it to me -- but i found this unit to be very underwhelming. It was neither as highly resolving as i expected, nor was it particularly "musical" or "analog-like." I found the redbook relatively outperformed the SACD. In short, I thought is did many things very well, but nothing spectacularly. Again, if the unit requires more break in than i was advised to give it, then i defer to those who have given it a fair chance. |
Is any one of you CDSA SE owners ready to give review of a player which is fully broken in? I would love to know how this player compares to Audio Aero Prestige, which I think is one of the greatest one box players. We don't have EMM LABS distributor here so it is not possible for me to audition that player. |
But the output level in SACD mode isn't lower than cd? In mine there is a big difference. And I have problems with some SACD in changing layer, from cd to sacd. It' also very slow in answering to commands.. however the sound is great!!
Maurizio |
Hi Frank,
I am using the high output on the EMM player. |
Jeffreybowman2k, your comments on 12-21-06 were critical. Have you any further comments now? |
Dionakra. Yes you will have to break in the SACD circuits as well. I usually rotate between cd and sacd during break in. I also like to run it 8 hours, rest (cool down) 4 hours and then run another 8 etc.
Frank |
I forgot saying.. with the high output the sound is more dinamic, at least with my BAT preamp. In sacd mode, the level is 1 or 2 db lower.
Maurizio |
After more burning in (about 100 hours), my CDSA is going better and better in cd mode, in sacd I am not so enthusiastic, it seems a little "digital" (but maybe it needs burning in sacd mode too). However, tremendous soundstage, incredible detail, natural sound. The bass is still a little "big", but tight enough and natural. I have a problem changing layer, sometimes it doesn't go to sacd from cd mode. I wonder how cdsa compares to EL combo..
Maurizio |
Barry- are you using the low or high output? |
My EMM CDSA SE was promising out of the box (a bit compressed and a bit digital sounding but very impressive nonetheless). After about 10 hours, the sound really opened up and became very analog like in its rich natural tonality. Although it has a very musical analog like sound, it also has tremendous (natural) detail. Images are very large and focused with a huge airy and spacious stage. It has superb micro and maco dynamics. It is the best digital player I have yet to hear. Bass is tight and tuneful, midrange is glorious and higs are very natural and extended. The player is also supremely coherent. Redbook CD is superb and good SACD's are noticably better. However, it is not in the same league (and shouldn't be) as my Grand Prix Monaco table / Dynavector arm / Dynavector XV1S cartridge. This front end is absolutely Magical and Amazing. To show how superb this EMM player is, I (an analog guy) can finally enjoy music through a digital machine.
One more note - The EMM player has only 25 hours and needs more break in time. |
