Antidote to Nihilism - Jordan Peterson "MUSIC"



Thanks for the post. It is an interesting perspective and insight. There will be a lot of people on this forum who will not listen to it; much less hear it because they will dismiss the source out of hand. 

Like your side doesn't dismiss our sources. Here's another futility thread, so much fun, fun,fun,fun. NOT

@dadork Those people don’t mater.

Intellectual curiosity, you either have it, or you don’t. This post is for the ones that are interested in what is being said, not for the ones who only care about who is saying it 🙏

Glad you enjoyed the video, the full interview was very interesting as well.


Isn't the OP the guy who just yesterday posted that someone should F*** Off and called this forum a sh*thole site?  It raises one's intellectual curiosity as to why he posts on this site at all.

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In his definitive masterpiece, "the Glass Bead Game" Herman Hesse somewhere in the book spoke about the
historical fact concerning some Chinese emperor who investigated about Music moral balance chords harmony decline to understand troubles in the empire...

For our spealial materialistic superficial mind this is preposterous...

But perhaps there is more here about this relation between music and spiritual conciousness and balance in the relation between the soul/body than what just what meet the eye...

Anyway i am personally convinced that some music genre and style are toxic...
I dont reject the talent of any musician in any stylistic genre...

But all genres of music are not equal...

An indian raga or the art of the fugue of Bach are not "equal" to some commercial destructive marketted sounds like some raps are..Even crocodile have tastes...But all tastes are not equal...But the social cohesive power of music stay there even in the worst case.... Melody, harmony, rythm put all people TOGETHER ....Nevermind the esthetical, spiuritual precide value levels of the music event itself...

Speech sound and musical sound make us humans, not technology which is only a secondary effects of these prime phenomenon...Only fire technology compare with perhaps...

The decline of popular music in north america generally, because they are exceptions, i spoke about the general trends here, reflect the decline of america itself...

The most important sentence in the Peterson video for me is :" All arts aspired to be music"... It is tremendously true concerning one of the greatest art : Poetry...

Another art which aspire to be music is not so well known : it is the art of Reason...



For sure i dont suggest here that the specific musical cultural phenomena is the "cause" of decline or ascent in creativity in social harmony, and in sane moral life like the Chinese emperor think... Only that all part of the cosmos reflect the WHOLE... A very old idea that science never could ever kill but an idea that continuously inspire scientists...Save for sure for materialist scientist, an endangered species now...


«There is no separated parts, only a manifesting whole»-Anonymus Smith

«The world is a picture without meaning, Music is a meaning without picture»-Anonymus Smith

«My body is my main musical instrument, especially in a crowded room»-Groucho Marx 🤓

@mahgister I agree with that observation 100%. Decline in the Quality and complexity of music is a direct representation of the cognitive/spiritual decline in the population at large.

The end of civilizations have quite a few things in common...

  • Debasement of currency,
  • Restriction on the freedoms of the population.
  • The loss of traditional values.
  • Rise in Deviant lifestyles and ideologies ( Believe it or not Transgenderism/paganism is something that is almost always present).
  • Mass psychosis and devolution of Art.
  • Never ending Militarism
  • Proliferation of Pornography, feminization of men.
  • Rejection of Reason and Logic

Yeah, the cycle repeats...and we are at the precipice, again.


the VIDEO may have nothing to do with politics, 3 posts on and everything is politics..

and now you delete your post stating in bold THIS VIDEO HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS - if you don’t like it go away - pretty pathetic really

No one is FORCING you to watch the "Video" or take part in the subsequent dialogue.


we are having an adult conversation about the devolution of music, .move along to something else that peaks your interest @pesky_wabbit


I don’t care for anything you have to say, so do what you usually do...but do it somewhere else.

I am fed up by people here who post ALWAYS 2 or 3 lines "opinions" with no arguments and criticize a very interesting thread because he present a very important video content...

These people are the same who attack any personality they dont like, instead of argument they shit from their shithole... Happily their posts are always short... Thinking is out of their skills..

« Idiot are easy to spot, any word they used painted them in the same predictible corner» -Anonymus Smith

by removing your post you were aiming to have my post appear to lack context, and therefore draw attention away from the fact that after having berated people for suggesting that this was a political thread, you had turned it completely into a political thread 3 posts later.

The video is very interesting, and the some the topics raised are great discussion material, but in a few posts you swung the whole direction of the thread to personal agendas that you have been pursuing like a zealot for as long as I can remember.

It’s good you’ve got your own thread so you can quit hijacking other ones. I’m outta here

The video was fine. Music is patterns. Different patterns resonate differently with different people. Still happens Always will. Nobody owns the monopoly on patterns or experiences. Nothing political about how music works. In fact music is one of the things in this world that brings people together.  Yay for that!

Indian Vedas and Ancient Egyptian texts describe sound waves that supposedly were used to lift megalith stones, weighing 1000’s of tons.

Music is elemental, it’s a physical representation of higher mathematics, and even plant growth is affected by it. Patterns repeating in complex fractal geometric shapes.



Tolkien fans know this story pretty well, but the same idea we are talking about is expressed quite beautifully in the Silmarillion.. Order integrating disorder, Harmony integrating disharmony. Not everyone is affected by Music equally, but certain music brings with it it’s own harmony and order. It Transends time, language and culture. it is universal.

Music can be Highest of Highs, or the lowest of lows, and it is not created equally.

Beauty has it’s own intrinsic value, independent of the beholder. 

The Music of the Ainur was the great song of the Ainur that took place before Time began, from which Eä, the material Universe, was created.

Eru Ilúvatar conceived the Ainur from his thought and taught each of them how to make music. At first the Ainur would only sing alone or in small groups while the others listened. The observance of their brethren singing taught each Ainu more about the others and the mind of Ilúvatar. Their "unity and harmony" thus increased, and eventually, Eru brought all the Ainur together and declared that they would play a song greater and more complex than they had ever sung before. He told them that they would be allowed to weave their own thoughts and ideas into this Music, since they had been kindled with the Flame Imperishable and thus had the power of creativity. The Ainur were so overwhelmed by Eru’s description of this Music that they bowed before him in silence.


The First Theme

After Ilúvatar told them about the Music, the Ainur began to fashion it. Their voices, like the sound of harps and trumpets and choirs, passed "beyond hearing" into the depths and heights of sound. The great Music filled the Timeless Halls and passed beyond them even into the Void, so that it "was not void". The Ainur’s flawless Music satisfied even Ilúvatar during this early stage.

Ainulindale by Alystraea

But soon, faults entered into the great Theme as a result of the discords of Melkor, an Ainu whose thoughts had become strange and unlike those of his brethren due to his wanderings in the Void. Ilúvatar had given the Ainur permission to weave their own ideas into the Music, but Melkor’s thoughts actually clashed against Eru’s Themes, because Melkor wanted to "increase the power and glory of the part assigned to himself". Melkor’s desire to bring into being creatures of his own with the Flame Imperishable and fill the emptiness of the Void put him at odds with Ilúvatar’s vision. These discords of Melkor that became evident in his music dismayed those around him, and many faltered in their singing or else attuned their song to his.

The original harmony of the Music was thus consumed by a "sea of turbulent sound" until it became like a "raging storm". At that point, Eru responded by rising from his seat and raising his left hand. It seemed to the Ainur that he then smiled. After his reaction to the Music, a new Theme began amid the chaos.

The Second Theme

The Second Theme was "like and yet unlike" the First; it gathered new power and beauty. Soon, however, Melkor’s discord rose up against it, and there was a "war of sound more violent than before", with Manwë taking the leadership of the Theme against the discord. This time, Melkor’s Theme triumphed over that of the others; many of the Ainur stopped singing entirely out of dismay. Ilúvatar then rose from his seat again, his expression stern this time. He raised his right hand, and yet another Theme unfolded.

The Third Theme

Melkor weaves opposing Music

The next Theme had a sound unlike the others before it. It began quietly amid the confusion of the Second Theme, and sounded like the rippling of soft and sweet notes. It gained power and depth over time, until two completely different songs were being made. One was filled with "immeasurable sorrow", which gave it tremendous beauty, while the other was a loud, pompous theme playing in violent opposition to it. Nevertheless, this repetitive theme could not overcome the sorrowful one, and the latter merely took the former’s greatest notes and "[wove them] into its own solemn pattern". The strife between the two themes caused the dwelling of Ilúvatar and even the Void beyond it to shake. At this point, Eru stood once more and raised both his arms, "and in one chord, deeper than the Abyss, higher than the firmament... the Music ceased".


Ilúvatar then spoke to the Ainur about the Music and the consequences that would arise from any attempts to bring discord into it, as Melkor had done. To show them the result of their actions, he led them into the Void and spoke, "Behold your Music!". The Ainur saw a Vision of what their song had created— "a World that was globed amid the Void... but was not of it". They saw the history of this World as it unfolded, and witnessed the part each had played in its making. Even the discords of Melkor contributed to the glory of this creation.

The Ainur were amazed when the Children of Ilúvatar came into this vision, for they were a part of Eru’s plan that had not been revealed to them before the Music was played. The Children were sung into being by Ilúvatar during the Third Theme, and none of the Ainur had dared contribute to their making.

Ilúvatar suddenly took away the vision, and the Ainur did not get to see how it would end. Some say that they only saw the history of the Universe until the Dominion of Men. The abrupt ending of the vision caused restlessness among the Ainur, and Ilúvatar perceived that they wanted the vision to be given true being, so that—even despite the terrible flaws that had been introduced into it—the Universe would be as real as they themselves were.

Therefore Eru said, "Eä! Let these things Be!". He sent the Flame Imperishable into the Universe, and far off in the Void a light appeared—the beginning of the achievement of the Music of the Ainur.


The Universe still operates according to the design declared in the Music, and the flaws within it come from the discords of Melkor, which have been part of it since its beginning. Nevertheless, Ilúvatar insisted that these faults would but bring forth new and greater things in the Music’s achievement.


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