Another streaming newbie

The BlueSound Node 2i is like a gateway drug.  It's a good way to get started, but may leave you wanting for more, especially if you really enjoy the sound of vinyl.  It has a great app and is easy to use, but you may eventually find it lacking sonically.  If you'd prefer to skip past all of that and have a $2K budget, start with something like the Lumin D2 or TEAC NT-505.  You'll probably get some other recommendations in that price range.

Adding a DAC to the Node 2i is a band-aid that will improve the sound quality, but not as much as just buying a better unit.  I added an Auralic Vega DAC ($3500 when new) to my Node 2 and while it improved the sound, that combination was easily bested by the all-in-one TEAC NT-505.  The app is not as good s the BlueSound app, but you can use the Lumin or Esoteric apps or BubbleupNp or Roon to name a few, all of which are better than the TEAC HR Streaming app.

Chuck, a few thoughts about your responses.

The TEAC NT-505 has a much "warmer/analog like" sound than the Bluesound.  The other thing I noticed immediately was a much bigger and more lifelike soundstage.  Not warmer at the expense of detail either, there is plenty of that.

Don't get me wrong, the Bluesound sounds surprisingly good, especially at its price point.  You get a lot of convenience and very decent sound in a reasonably priced device.  It may actually sound better than your vinyl in the sense that you won't have all the background noise, ticks, pops, etc. that are part of the vinyl experience.  What you won't get is the "magic" that happens when you have a good vinyl setup and if you do some back to back comparisons you'll notice more "grain" and "edge" to the sound of the Bluesound.

I personally am indifferent to MQA.  Qobuz is my main streaming source (I also have Tidal, Spotify, and Pandora), and to my ears, it sounds as good or better than Tidal, especially the hi-res files.  

As far as the controller app, I believe it connects wirelessly, not through bluetooth, but yes, it allows you to control the streamer from your phone or tablet.  Some devices have a touch screen that allows you to do it manually, but for the Node 2i and TEAC and many others, the only way to control them is from an app.  Some also have apps that can run on your computer (Bluesound does).  The app lets you connect to your streaming service(s) as well as any local library you might have.  Not all services are supported by the different apps.  Bluesound is nice because it supports a wide variety of streaming services.  Tidal and Qobuz seem to be pretty widely supported, but that's something to check before you buy - what services are you using and are they supported.

Chuck,

My short and sweet description (or opinion if you wish) of Tidal vs Qobuz rests on a couple of things. 

Tidal seems to be focused on a younger audience.  Think hip-hop, pop, rap, etc.  It's owned by Jay-Z.  Qobuz seems to appeal to a more mature (OK older) audience, with an emphasis on classical, jazz, classic rock, etc. 

Their catalogs overlap a lot, although I think Tidal has an overall larger selection. 

Tidal uses MQA for "hi-res" files, which requires special software AND hardware to do the full "unfold" of the file (this they MQA capable DACs).  Qobuz on the other hand simply provides a lot of high resolution files (mostly 24/96 to 24/192) that play through any DAC capable of playing hi-res files, which most can. 

I keep Tidal because sometimes there are things that I want to listen to that aren't available on Qobuz, but that seems to happen less and less.  If I was forced to only keep one, it would be Qobuz for sure.

@michaela Yes, you can stream through your Oppo 105.  The newer models don't do offer that, but yours will do it.  You can stream Tidal and Pandora as well as any music you might have on your network.

Some have suggested buying a Bluesound and an external DAC.  If you like the Bluesound app and the Bluesound's features, an external DAC can provide better sound quality. 

But like the rest of your system, everything matters.  If you're looking for the best sound quality, skip the Bluesound. 

Adding an expensive DAC to the Bluesound is kind of like putting a $1,000 cartridge on a $500 turntable.  Sure, it'll sound better than the stock cart it came with, but you won't come close to what that $1,000 cartridge is capable of, because the turntable isn't up to the task.

@chuckccs I started out with the Node 2 because I wanted to dip my toes into streaming and see if I liked it.  I also got a good deal on the Node 2 because the Node 2i had just come out and ended up getting most of my money back on the Bluesound when I replaced it.  That's not a bad way to start, but if sound quality matters, you'll probably end up doing an upgrade at some point. 

It sounds like you've already embraced the world of opportunity that streaming will open up to you, so my advice would be to make an investment that you'll be happy with right away.

Do you mind explaining this one a bit more?  I don't think the analog analogy is the best one to use here since we are talking digital and ones and zeros.  The reason a high end cdp cost so much mostly the dac, you can only do so much with the rest of the internals to improve sound-wise.  

Using a great UI with proper connections with an upgraded DAC doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as you are suggesting but if it is I would like to know why.

It's a pretty easy to understand analogy isn't it?  How about trying to build something on a less than great foundation?  Does that make more sense to you?

I'm not saying the Bluesound is bad, far from it.  For its price it's a wonderful product and delivers very good sound quality.  Nor did I say that adding a good DAC to it is "bad".  It's not.  There's just a better way to about getting better sound from streaming, which is what you're after if you're going to add a DAC to a device that already has one, right?

Go read the other "streaming newbie" thread that spun off this one.  You'll see that a lot of people have done that and see little to no improvement in sound quality.

Upgrading to a better streamer/DAC (the TEAC NT-505) resulted in a much greater improvement in sound quality, not to mention soundstage, than adding a $3500 DAC to the Bluesound. 

I don't know the exact "why" of it, since as you said, "it's just ones and zeros", but I know what I heard.  Spending less than $2K plus recovering a few hundred from the sale of my Node 2 was also a better deal from a cost/performance standpoint than buying a Bluesound and an external DAC.

A couple of things.  Qobuz dropped the rate for their "Studio" subscription (which allows you to stream their hi-res files) to $14.99 / month.  Tidal is still $19.99 for the "Hi-Fi" subscription, which lets you stream MQA.  Some MQA files sound "different" to me also, but not necessarily better.

It's based on my experience trying outboard DACs and comparing to a better quality streamer/DAC (the TEAC NT-505).  The Node 2i is a nice product, and adding an external DAC can make it sound better.  Some say much better.  My experience was that it was a little better.  The NT-505 was much better. 

I still have a Node 2 in my bedroom system and am using the DAC in my Sony TA-ZH1ES instead of the Node 2's DAC.  It sounds really good.  I enjoy it and am not disappointed with the sound quality. 

However, I wanted to get the most out of my main system and when I compared sources - my turntable, CD player, and the Node 2 with an Auralic Vega DAC, the Node 2/Vega sound quality did not hold up to the rest of the sources in my system.  When I replaced the Node 2/Vega with the TEAC NT-505 it took streaming sound quality to another level.

I am not an engineer and can't tell you technical reasons why, but if it makes sense that everything in your system matters, then how can you expect a budget device like the Node 2i to provide a solid foundation that you can build on?  

For me, it was similar to my experience when I tried adding a bunch of "upgrades" and a nice cartridge to a budget turntable.  It did make improvements in sound quality, but at the end of the day, a better constructed turntable with better isolation, a better tonearm, and motor sounded much better, even with a cheap cartridge than the tricked out budget table did with all the upgrades.