Analog Upgrade itch

@sksos thats very good price ! The Seismion costs around $5000 and the size is 500 x 400mm, max load 80kg , this price , I was told, a 50% cheaper than comparable products from Herzan (Switzerland) or Accurion (Germany） , I have no knowledge about their difference.  I do not aware the product has passive / active options. 
@sksos would you share your knowledge please ? Does VP offer 220v version ? It seems like a substantial difference in price if they are the same product. I am very tempted to pull the trigger and give it a try. 
cheers 

There are basically 2 models a “Passive” model and an “Active” unit which requires a compressor that puts out 120 psi (not included).  You can buy compressors usually in any voltage required for your area. 

Both Vibraplane (passive & active) tables are sonically identical as they isolate any component placed on them down to 2.5 to 3 HZ.  The active table again requires a compressor to supply a constant air supply to keep it floating and is self-leveling.  The passive model uses a hand pump to "float" the component.  The passive model, once set, should stay at its proper inflation for at least a week or so without needing adjustment, depending on the weight of the component placed on it.  The table will hold up to 275 pounds and VP weighs in at 150 pounds. Shipped on a pallet it’s over 200 pounds.  The entire 24" x 20" surface of the top plate is flat and unobstructed, allowing plenty of room for any turntable.  The top plate is constructed of a half inch plate of "Vibradamped" steel, which is covered with a Formica top skin and formed by two layers of steel of varying thickness, bonded together with a damping adhesive to minimize any resonance.  To provide additional mass, a 10" x 14" x 1-1/4" piece of steel is welded to the bottom which is concealed, along with the three pneumatic isolators, by a 2" x 1/8" thick decorative skirt attached vertically to the outer perimeter of the top plate. The top platform is isolated by three patented, pneumatic isolators using a special bladder sealed in an airtight piston housing, each connected to a supplementary air chamber that improves real-time damping of periodic and random vibrations in the vertical plane. Horizontal isolation is provided largely by a series of special, highly compliant elastomer discs separated by thin, hard spacers. This portion of the isolator is located under the vertical air piston and moves side to side as efficiently as the pneumatic portion responds vertically. The elastomer sandwich operates as a variation of the bearing slip-plate concept for horizontal motion.

A "baby" VP is also available that measures 19" x 16" and weighs 90 pounds. It can be bought as either an active or passive model.

As a side note one compressor can "float" as many as 12 VP's. 

Hope this helps.

(Dealer disclaimer)

As a user of the Vibraplane, I'll just add that it is very easy to adjust even when its loads are not centered. My belt driven turntable is very heavy compared to the motor pod which means most of the weight is to one side of the Vibraplane. I purchased an air compressor that I keep in a storage area below the stereo room and run an airline up to the Vibraplane. Easy! 

I will add that I have heard subtle improvements with the addition of additional vibration absorbing material on top of the Vibraplane. Specifically, I am now using a Symposium platform.  My system pictures should illustrate all this.  I bet that even the entry level Stabi S would sound amazing (and much improved) on top of a Vibraplane.  

Hi @eddiechanghk , just want to clarify a couple of points regarding “active” and “passive”, which could be confusing for you. As I understand, the Vibraplane belongs to a class called pneumatic vibration isolators. In general, this kind of isolators is considered as “passive” devices. What is confusing is that within this class of “passive” isolators, there are passive and active models, as explained by @sksos. For the Vibraplane, the terms active and passive models only refers to the method of levelling (automatic vs manual).

The Herzan and it’s kind are considered as “active” vibration isolators. They physically generate a counter force to cancel out the vibration, hence the term “active” !

These vibration isolators were originally used in scientific laboratories, eg. under electronic microscopes etc. The “active” devices like the Herzan are considered more technologically advanced, and have better isolation specifications. They are also more expensive, as you have noticed.

I have a couple of floor standing pneumatic anti-vibration tables under my turntables and can attest to their benefits. However, I have not compared them to “active” platforms, like the Herzan, in my own system, so can’t say whether they can be even better. 

Hope this helps 

Dear all : update : I went to auditioned Allnic H7000 , Kuzma Stabi R with 4point9 , and I went to another dealer who offered me Dr Feickert Firebird and with a Kondo Audio Note GE1 phono stages , was very impressed with the SQ

Due to a change of dealership they have a demo Firebird with a 50% off RRP which makes it similar (or cheaper) than Stabi R. Anyone did compare the two ?

About Phono Stages : one of the sales suggest me to use a SUT (Etsuro has one) to fit my cartridge and go with the Kondo GE1 (which is MM only) , but this will set me back with several thousand dollars more. The question is : does Kondo worth the extra over Allnic ( 50% classical , some vocals / jazz) 

Pardon for my ignorance , does a SUT+ MM phono plays better than direct to a MC phono and what is the sonic improvement, generally can provide from a SUT ?

cheers

OK @eddiechanghk!  This is going to get juicy! 

Expect lots of different opinions on the superiority of the MM+SUT versus the dedicated MM/MC phono pre.  My experience with both is that it depends on the system.  When selecting a high quality SUT you must know the output and the internal resistance of your cart so they are well matched. On the other hand a properly designed phono pre can provide all the gain required for the best LOMC/MI cartridges without adding noise and avoids the need for additional cabling. 

A friend of mine really values the use of the MM section on his vintage Marantz 7C preamp.  He uses a SUT for his Lyra Atlas.  Sounds great.  The same SUT in my system, using the MM input on my PASS Labs XP-27 with an Lyra Etna wasnt as good as going straight into the MC settings. 

Hope this helps. 

@eddiechanghk 

Pardon for my ignorance , does a SUT+ MM phono plays better than direct to a MC phono and what is the sonic improvement, generally can provide from a SUT ?

Really depends on the quality of the particular units - you cant generalise.

The Allnic H7000 actually has a SUT built in.

Be aware there are 2 versions of the H7000 phono -

1 version with SUT plus active MC step up ( this would give you the choice of SUT vs active

another version with 2 SUT MC inputs.

You need to check with the dealer which version he is recommending.

The Feickert is a very good turntable, but if you are going for a 4point then I would get the Kuzma R. The Feickert's are quite often paired with Kuzma arms and should work well if you are keen on the Feickert. Soundwise I still prefer Kuzma R.

@dover thanks for the explanation. I didn’t aware the 2 options from Allnic ! That adds points to Allnic over Kondo. 
 

do you (or any seasoned memeber) have compared Kondo GE1 vs Allnic ? How do they differ sonically ? 

cheers

Hello,

@eddiechanghk 

I am Marcus, Co-Founder of Seismion. I have seen our active vibration isolators being mentioned here in this thread, so I would like to reply to some questions.

Yes, we are a new company from Hannover in Germany, we have developed in the past 4 years active vibration isolators, a similar category like Herzan, TableStable etc.

Recenty we started to sell our isolators also to audiophile customers, and thankfully we got very positive reviews (there is a thread in WBF)

Vibration isolation is an important factor for many kinds of HiFi equipment which are sensitive to mechanical disturbance (especially turntables, tube amplifiers, but actually a lot of other parts, even cables).

We have made a short video about the influence of vibration isolation for turntables:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPd7Ft-vuZY

A good measure to compare the performance of isolators is the resonance frequency, because isolation starts only above that frequency. Our active vibration isolators have a resonance of about 1 Hz, which is way lower than other types of isolators, like the mentioned pneumatic isolators (Vibraplane etc). These devices typically start isolation around 3 Hz or even higher.

There are actually a lot of vibration sources in the low frequency range 1-5 Hz, like foot fall sound, building vibrations, so active isolators have a clear advantage here. And of course, also the isolation itself is better at any given (low) frequency compared to the passive isolators. You can find a bit more details on this, and comparison of passive and active on our website:

https://seismion.com/technology/

Speaking about passive and active: I totally agree to the reply of @thekong : all pneumatic isolators should be in fact classified as passive, and 'active' here only refers to automatic levelling (which does not contribute to vibration isolation). Active isolators like our Seismion, Herzan etc. typically have a feedback loop consisting of sensors, a control, and actuators, which makes them a totally different class.

We are looking for a close discussion with the audiophile community, since we want to offer a product that is perfectly tailored to your needs. As written above, most other active isolation products are designed for industrial applications, and might not perfectly fit, both from the function and from the design.

By the way, we are now able to serve any orders with short notice :)

Looking forward to a fruitful discussion!
Marcus

I just installed the Seismion platform under my field coil speaker power supply. Huge difference! Once you hear what it does, you can't go back.

Keep in mind that this is under a solid state (not tube) power supply for the electromagnets in 4 drivers, so it's not even directly in the signal path. And, I already had the power supply sitting on a Taiko Daiza panzerholtz base.

@surge a platform under your power supply ！ wow 

may I know what you used underneath your TT and your speakers lol ?

just an update : for the last 2 months I was lucky enough to have several dealers let me audition different phonos in my premise : EMT128, Kondo M7(wSUT) , CS Port (a new Japanese brand), Brinkmann Edison mk2, ASR, and SoulNote E2. My final choice is SoulNote E2 , it’s a Japanese hi-end manufacturer probably not available in NA yet but in my system (plus many showroom auditions of different brands like Nagra, Manley, Allnic, ARC) this is the best overall ( overall means it’s not overly coloured like some tube phonos but it has the density and 3-D holographic quality with excellent tonal balance and micro dynamics like some European phonos 2x the price) plus it has a built in circuitry to accommodate optical cartridges (DS) 

i highly recommend anyone looking for a phono in the $7-10k range, must give it an audition. 
( I upgraded my TT to Kuzma Stabi R, w/ 4 point 11 arm) my next step is to opt for a second tonearm: possible Groovemaster III. Any expert here tried this arm vs SME ? Planning to put a SPU cartridge on , any suggestions ? Ortofon ? 
thanks for any advise. Happy spinning. 

Yes, I have an HRS S1 under my Brinkmann Bardo/SMEV12/Kondo IO-M.

@eddiechanghk sounds like you've made some excellent choices and had the benefit of listening to a lot of different gear. Hope you are loving your Stabi R.  I will be receiving mine at the beginning of February. Excited to have two tonearms mounted on the same table.  Still using my Vibraplane as well. 

Lots of vintage arms are supposed to match nicely with SPU.  Schick, Fidelity Research to name a couple.

@karl_desch thanks , the StabiR + 4pt 11 is an upgrade to me, is worth every penny … now my itch goes to which cartridge I should try next 😂 : DS optical or SPU (I know they are very different) 

If the DS Optical Generator is available, the buying into the DS Audio Cartridge Line is not too expensive.

I have listened to DS Audio Cartridges and SPU's in very different systems, I recollect the SPU on all systems it has been encountered, as a Rich Presenting Cart' and the perceived level is more than I am liking on the systems it has been heard used in.

I have only heard from my recollections a DS Audio 'Upper Range' Cart used on one system that I am quite familiar with, I have no recollections of detecting anything not to like about the Cart' in use. I do recollect follow up MC Cart's were more favourable and noticeably more of a attraction.

These Demo's are in non-owned systems and for were a short duration, any comments are from a recollection of a initial impression that has been made.   

@pindac thank you and it sounds very in consistent with what I heard from other audiophilies’ comment. DS “nothing wrong but nothing attractive” my personal but very limited experience is they are very detailed with exceptionally low noise floor.

Which makes me more eager to toy with a “high end” SPU than an optical cartridge for the moment.  

 

This is not a criticism, just a observation of a trait that has been shared about your latest Phonostage acquisition. In Your Post it is stated,

" overall means it’s not overly coloured like some tube phonos but it has the density and 3-D holographic quality with excellent tonal balance and micro dynamics like some European phonos 2x the price "

I use Tube Designs that are towards the Lean Side in their presentation, I can add an increased Rich Tone through a use of a SUT. I use a Cart' that works with maintaining this attractive trait.

I can add a overbearingly Rich Tone by using a owned LOMC through the MM Input, it is certainly not to my taste, but is a achievable experience, with the Volume Maxxed Out . 

I'm confident the SPU is able to make the inherent Rich Tone become quiet noticeable, is this the desired outcome, to add Richness to a Phon' that is selected for it not having a too Rich Trait in how it presents.

I would think a Cart' that enhances the trait that caught your attention might be a alternative way to think about marrying a Cart'>Phon.