AMR CD-77

Manati

My system as yours. Could you give me detail as to which best CD Player ( Reimyo CDP-777, AMR CD-77, Emm Labs) you've heard in your system?

Here you go Slowhand, I brought this up for you.

You've got a lovefest happening over in another thread:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1170648365&read&3&4&

Another three weeks have passed... anyone else take delivery of this player?

Any other thoughts on performance?

The other CD players worth comparing are the orignal emm combo, CDSD/DCC2. and the Reimyo CD 777.The first I had in my system for 2 years.The second I had on loan for 3 weeks.You may read my comments above.
My equipment consists of: ASR Emitter ll exclusive. Kharma 3.2 sub and speakers. Kubala Sosna emotion interconnects and speaker cables. Electraglide a/c cables.etc

Manati,
Thanks for your thoughts. Could you give us more detail as to which CD players that you have owned or heard in which you are comparing the CD77? Could you also mention what comprises the rest of your system?

The CD 77 continues to make music. As it is today is more musicaly satisfying than any othrer player that I have heard or owned. I can only expect that when the burn in is done it will only get to a higher level of performance.

Sorry, no experience with the pre amp.

Manati,
Any further thoughts about the player?

Do you have experience with the integrated am-77?

I just picked up my CD-77 yesterday since I am a local buyer.
obviously there is not much I can say at this point except that the packing, the built and the details in the overall appearance are tops.
Something I can say about the sound is that I plugged the unit and played right out of the box, no burn in, not even time to warm up. The impresion ?,well, think about what you experience when you buy a good bottle of wine of a good vintage year and a good wine maker. You open the first bottle when it is still young, at that time you notice some basic qualities that you enjoy inmediately and then anxiously wait to taste the full flavors as the wine matures knowing that it will do nothing but to get better...

AMR has arrived to the US. Follow the feedback from buyers. I have no doubt that it will be very good.

OK - some of the dealers were stoking the flames of the fire a couple of months ago. Could anyone chime in as to when the production units are shipping?

Anyone receive one yet? Thanks for the info.

Has anyone that has this player on order gotten word as to when you will be receiving it? I would like to hear from an owner receiving a new production unit...

Keep us posted! Thanks.

I was in Munich show and heard the AMR stuff and seemed normal stock pieces. I can not say about the sound of the cdplayer because the room , the system especially the speakers and the overall conditions were unknkown to me.
Actually I prefered the 2nd combination of Lyra Conoisseur 4.2 with Karan amp than Amr amp (cdp propably the amr cd77), which is logical since more expensive.
The overall sound was more fluid, warm in the full AMR electronics system. In generall good sound for the money unfortunately hadn't too much time to listen (Gryphon room, CAT+Ascendo+Audience room,, MBL room took too much of my attention as my personall top3 among many good others).

The AMR demo room also had room correction from German Fast audio and resonators on the walls from Acoustic system (http://www.fastaudio.com/INT/acsys000.html).

Hi Optarchie,

I live in Holland. The bass from the ARC CD7 is awesome. It is even better than my Krell CD player and also better than the Wadia 581 which is known for ts good bass. It goes deep and hes control and speed.

I have the reference 3 as well and yes the CD7 is as good.

The ARC CD7 is the most fluent CD player I ever heard. The Wadia shows more detail but is also brighter. On my system it will sometimes be to bright. The ARC has all the details to but without the brightness.

The ARC uses a Philips transport and has 7 tubes inside. The components used are first class and so is the build quality.

Well if AMR has only a beta version it should be as good as the final version. Why would they demonstrate with it otherwise. When there is now a new version coming out this proves only what I said in my previous mail. They must have had problems in the beginning or the CD player was not yet fully developed. Even if I wanted to buy the AMR CD77 I would wait another year to see if they solve all the problems.

The first Audio Aero CD players also had lot's of problems and that's why you saw a lot of them on the used market. The new versions however should be reliable now.

Peter

peter,
where do you guys live? I am also intersted in both the arc and the amr. Did you hear the actual production unit or the beta version? It is my understanding that there are no amr cd77's in the USA yet and all the dealers domestically and in Europe have the beta version that has been updated to the current level that will be shipped out this month. This is according to the importer. How was the base on the audio research player. I know that the reference 3 pre-amp is awesome. Is the cd player as good?

Well reviews say absolutely nothing about the performace of a piece of equipment. I now beleive that all reviews are sold. The more a brand advertises and the more it pays the reviewer the better the review. I know some reviewers got very expensive hifi in order to get good reviews.

So what is left is forums like audiogon and audioreview which gives real reviews of people who actually owned the equipment.

My friend also was interested in the AMR. He tried the Wadia 581, the AMR and the ARC CD7. According to his opinion the AMR was very good but not as liquid sounding as the ARC CD7. He also choosed the ARC CD7 to be the best player. However he bought the Wadia 581 because of it's well known reputation and the high resale value after two years.

To me and my friend there are also other criteria than only the sound. In this range most CD players are close and it comes down to personal taste. He liked the AMR almost as good as the CD7 and it costs less than the CD7. But if you invest 50.000 euro in a hifi system and want to upgrade later you want to get back a reasonable amount of money. A 10.000 euro CD player which has a value after two years of 6000 costs less in the end than a 7000 euro player that is worth 2000 after two years.

But a small company that just started has it's problems. For example there are no known delivery times. What if the new player has problems after a while or the company will go bankrupt. In that case your investment is useless. So that would be a reason to choose for a known manufacturer.

To me the CD7 is the most liquid player I ever heard and that's why I just ordered one also.

Peter

I thought you said that you had a cd 77 and amp at home for a review and than prefered the arc equipment

Optarchie,

The distributor here is the only one who has a unit. Fully broken in !!! You must have misread my comment because I only made a statement for the ARC.

I'm truly looking forward to hearing the AMR cd player. The 6moons review generated a ton of interest but the speculation and anticipation preceding the release by readers of this thread, one existing dealer, and one former dealer, have certainly added fuel to the fire as it were.

None of us have heard the final version so it really is futile and a waste of time to discuss break in time, sonics, comparisons to other products, ad nauseum. Personally I've seen dozens of new products whose actual performance is vastly exceeded by the hype that preceded them. A cynic? Perhaps. A realist? More likely.

Afterall, this is only a cd player not a medical breakthrough or new form of energy.

Disclaimer: AMR retailer. I've not heard it and know nothing more than any of you.

amen to that!!!!!

What is interesting is so many are griping about those inquiring as to whether the unit is broken in or not.

This is a one box player that appears very formidable according to the six moons review.

I am very interested to hear some feedback on the unit. I also know from experience My Esoteric X-01 Limited & Audio Aero Capitole MKII SE both took well over 4-500 hours to fully relax.

Do I have a vested interest? Yes. The same vested interest that any other person curious about this product and considering purchase of the unit does. Several thousand dollars would be a vested interest.

I think most in this hobby realize there is no "one" product that will be all for everybody.

What those of us that are curious about is to hear how this player will sound after a good several hundred hours on it. Not comparisons out of the box.

Let me clarify - good, bad, fabulous, ugly - review doesn't matter - as long as the reveiw is honest & accurate according to that persons ears in their system.

It is incredibly tiring to see people more worried about someones "interest" in a product than to hear about the product.

I just pay attention to what people write and no matter what is said, someone always interprets what was written incorrectly. I think everyone is entitled to thier own opinion but when it comes to audio equipment proper breakin is required for all equipment. It took me almost 700 hours to breakin in my von schweikert vr4 srs. A one week home audition for a new piece of audio gear is not proper breakin for any new piece of gear and most manufacturers recommend at least 2-3 hundred hours. I hope this clarifies. Also, it seems that people keep posting about the amr cd77 and no one in the USA has a new unit. The only unit available is a beta version which is a demo that was updated to spec a few weeks ago.

Optarchie
Do we have a financial interest in this?
You seem to have allot of info regarding what they have sent out and so on.
Every time someone post an opinion on it, that isn’t glowing you seem too responded negative.
You are making assumptions that people haven’t broken the unit in or listened to it long enough.
People give opinions all day long on forums like this about other products; I don’t see you responding to them like you are this thread?
Again, what is your interest in this player? Are you associated with it in anyway? Just curious.
God forbid people will have there own opinion!
I said it before; there isn’t one thing in Audio that everyone will agree on, if there was there would be no need other manufactures, would there?

williamredburry,
How long did you audition the amr cd77 for in your system? Was the unit broken in for a few hundred hours? Just trying to figure out why so many people comment on audio gear that is not broken in yet. It doesn't paint an accurate picture for people inquiring about certain equipment

I also have been waiting for the cd-77 for a couple of months now.(I live in the Netherlands) Sold my CDP ( Accphase dp67) in the meantime and listened to a 15 year old Marantz cd 40. An audiofriend ( also waiting for the cd-77 and am77) had the ARC cd7 Ref at home for a demo. He offered me to take a good listening to it also. So he brought the player over to me and he said I good have it a for almost a week. Now we both had an extended demo at home with the AMR cd-77 and am-77. We liked it so much that we both wanted the cd77. But then the ARC CD7 came in to my life. To make a long story short. We both bought the ARC CD7. No matter what disc you play with it it does it so nice. It's a miracle. You just have to here it to believe it. Maybe in the future I can compare the cd7 with the cd77 direct. ( confusing or not AMR ARC CD7 CD77?). For now I am more then happy with the ARC and I hope that AMR can live up to the expectations.

Jusbe, I have an Accuphase C-290V preamp, two Acoustic Reality Figaro class D monoblocs and Dunlavy SC-V speakers.

Chris

"'As you have an XLR connector, is the CD-77 balanced?'

The CD-77 uses a completely signal-ended signal path as we have found this to give a more realistic reproduction of music. However, in terms of sound quality, we found the XLR connector preferable to the RCA connector, even when used with un-balanced signals.

Consequently, we have offered the XLR output in a manner that is fully compatible with balanced equipment: takes full advantage of balanced connections yet retains the desirable single ended signal circuit." From AMR's website. There's more interesting stuff on their about why they have made certain choices - the amp's 4-output-stage-design springs to mind.

BTW Dazzdax, what's the rest of your system?

btstrg,
you should read more carefully what people post. You started this whole negative thng about amr when yoo posted that they should have updated all their equipment before they shipped it out. Well that is the farthest thing from accurate. They shipped out a beta version to a few dealers. All and every piece that is being shipped currently is the finished product. There is no person who has a cd77 that needs an update. Beta versions are just that and every company has a beta before the finished product hits the streets. It's called product development. If you read more carefully you would save every one a lot of time.

Cenline
What kind of comments are these? I could gtell you but then this wouldn't get posted.

(The fact that you are not blown away, leads me to suspect that you like HiFi type sound. Another consideration may be that your cabling is also suspect and that you are in need of new technologically advanced cables that require no burn in)

Are you saying if people don’t like it they only like HIFI sound?? Have you heard or are you basing that comment on what others have said.
And what about his cables?? Just because we all don’t have the VD cables you have been preaching about for months now, does that make all of our cables inferior to yours? I don’t think so!

I am always amazed by people making comments of things they have never heard or at least heard in there system. if people, don’t like the comments its always easy to blame it on there system instead of, in this case the AMR CD-77.

Not everyone is going to like this player people.

"But you are right though, I have to give the unit proper burn in time and eventually it will smoke the Accuphase for sure!"

dazzdax, c'mon, i hope you are joking. don't let these guys push you around. this is a very interesting unit on paper, and i am certainly interested in hearing people's firsthand experience. don't be intimidated! keep us updated.

Have you had a chance to try the USB interface off of a computer. To me, this is the greatest advantage to the AMR. With such an interface, the AMR won't end up being a doorstop in the near future. Of course, implemetation is everything, which is why I'm asking.

David

Let me explain first that I'm not critizicing the AMR with regard to it's sound, not at all. It sounds wonderful as I stated earlier. I'm only saying that the first impressions are that of a SOTA CDP with a different presentation than the Accuphase, which is not necessarily better. But you are right though, I have to give the unit proper burn in time and eventually it will smoke the Accuphase for sure!

Chris

Dazzdax
why would you even compare a fully burned in cdp to one that needs 400-1000hrs before it is also burned in ? I am always amazed that audiophiles jump to conclusions before the product has barely enough time to warm up ( 3days for my Wadia separates). Audiofeil correctly pointed out that the AMR sells for a fraction of what your Accuphase combo retailed at.This AMR cdp is supposed to be very well voiced
and the fact that you are not blown away, leads me to suspect that you like HiFi type sound.Another consideration may be that your cabling is also suspect and that you are in need of new technologically advanced cables that require no burn in ( lest we jump to conclusions yet again!).Dazzdax, please consider what the gentlemen after you have said,maybe,being the first one on the block carries a certain responsibility before one speaks Prematurely !!Please let us know what you think after 400hrs.Take care Dennis

I just want to know how any one can even comment how the new amr sounds without proper breakin. I have been told that it takes almost 200 hours for it to sound its best so any opinions at this present time is pointless. Also, if the unit is the beta version than it is even more pointless.

Yes, if the Accuphase was contemporary digital gear, but it is in fact oldskool (15 year old design) and the AMR is one of the current SOTA CDP with the latest digital know how being implemented, so it should be superior to the Accuphase. Didn't I hear audiophiles saying that digital technology is moving so fast that there is a risk that your latest CDP purchase is already becoming outdated? I'm affraid newer technology doesn't essentially mean better sound. Btw, the AMR-77 is a wonderful CDP though.

Chris

At $22K you'd expect the Accuphase combination to best the AMR easily.

I've just received the AMR-77 for a home audition. I'm comparing the CDP with my trusty Accuphase DP-90/DC-91 combo. I'm not going to review this CDP, because it is too preliminary and I'm not very good at reviewing audio components. The only thing I can say is albeit this CDP sounds very good, compared to the Accuphase it sounds rather different than better. It might be a 15 year leap in technology, but not a 15 year leap in sound. I know it's only nitpicking, but it is a bit strange that the balanced out is in fact a fake single ended output. It doesn't even use transformers to get pseudo-balanced. Why did the designer do such a thing?

Chris

Contact Brian Kyle at Xtreme AV. He advertises here on Audiogon. He will be letting me come by for an audition in the near future.

Is there a dealer on the west coast anyone knows of?

Dave

>>but with all the AMR pimping going on around here with nary a unit in sight at retail, the AMR dealers started to blend together<<

Not if you took the time to read the threads carefully. Others knew this and you didn't. That is your mistake; don't blow it off as anything else.

>>there is absolutely a need to be concerned where an $8,500 piece of electronics is going back for fixes at the last minute.<<

Better the problem is discovered and corrected before release. The best laid plans of mice and men you know....

>>In any case, whether the last minute fixes are the last of the AMR issues will be answered by retail purchasers and not at demos, shows or by dealers or reviewers or the like.<<

Irrelevant. That's true of any product.

>>However, the fact that AMR has been working on the unit for three years and apparently still haven't gotten it right should be extremely disconcerting to all of "us" audiophiles.<<

Be careful including yourself; it may not be appropriate.

>>Finally, take your own advice regarding personal attacks<<

You reap what you sow Sparky.

My apologies to Essentialaudio, but with all the AMR pimping going on around here with nary a unit in sight at retail, the AMR dealers started to blend together. Nevertheless, the other dealer was reprimanded and the account was otherwise accurate.

Further, irrespective of your comments Cuwill or those of the rest of the AMR defense force, there is absolutely a need to be concerned where an $8,500 piece of electronics is going back for fixes at the last minute. In any case, whether the last minute fixes are the last of the AMR issues will be answered by retail purchasers and not at demos, shows or by dealers or reviewers or the like. However, the fact that AMR has been working on the unit for three years and apparently still haven't gotten it right should be extremely disconcerting to all of "us" audiophiles.

Finally, take your own advice regarding personal attacks.

To clear something up, Brian was not the dealer that the company was talking about.
I believe Brian has always been up front about being a AMR dealer.

Bar81,

You are right, how long you have been a member has no relevance to your posts or your erroneous comments.

First, you take credit for "Calling our a dealer with an obvious heavy bias." If you read the entire thread before your first post to it, you would have seen that it was clear to all that Essentialaudio was a dealer.

Second, in case there was any doubt about his status, on 5-2-07 Essentialaudio posted: "Regarding the sound, you will find out when you hear it. As an AMR dealer I am trying to avoid posting subjective impressions which could be viewed as self promotion." In fact this posting lead to the following post by Btstrg: "Okay, I know you are a dealer and am asking you with that knowledge what are YOUR impressions of the player...I am asking you so be subjective all you want, I would like to know your initial impressions." A comment, I agree with by the way. I don't mind dealers commenting in constructive ways as long as their is full disclosure. I can then use my own judgment.

Third, Essentialaudio was not the dealer called out for his earlier comments. You need to re-read the thread you are talking about. I'm very familiar with it. It is quite clear who was "called out" by the distributor and it was not Essentialaudio.

So while the time you have been a member of this community is not relevant, the way you conduct yourself is. Essentialaudio appears to have conducted himself appropriately. Moreover, he disclosed that there were updates, which then lead to a whole discussion about the updates including comments by individuals who were in attendance about the specific issues with the player. All very helpful to those considering a purchase.

For the community to function for the benefit of all, you need to make sure your comments are accurate and your "attacks" well founded. Too much of this, IMO, goes on here and it is detrimental to this community as a whole.

And, like this posting, takes us off topic.

And, in case you are curious, I have no connection with AMR (including not owning any of their products) or Essentialaudio (never met him, never talked to him, do not know who he is other than a dealer who posts to this forum). I'm just an audiophile like the rest of us.

Wow, AMR defense force mobilize! Let's go over your nasty post:

(1) How does the length of my registration have any relevance to the discussion? Right, it doesn't.

(2) Please, what's my "transparant charade"? Trying to make sure a product doesn't break down after someone spends thousands on it. Calling out a dealer with an obvious heavy bias. Questioning a product you like. If so, I have been exposed.

Not to dredge up old posts/matters, but essentialaudio has been anything but honest and straightforward. He was, for quite some time, heavily pushing AMR without disclosing his dealer status. So much so in fact, that AMR had to tell him to back off. When the company you are a dealer for has to reprimand you, there's really not much more to be said.

Essentialaudio if the cd-77 is actually any good along with being reliable time will tell but so far I'm not impressed with the reliability issues.

You got caught up trying to market something but it has back fired, you weren't exspecting to get all of this negative feedback. You being a business man and a dealer for the product why wouldn't you have one of these so called cd-77 players brand new especially when you are having an open house. This just does not make any sense to get all of this negative press.

This is a $8500.00 player so firstly it must be reliable.

I agree with Kevinkwann. Let's wait for the dust to settle.

Bar81: You’ve been a member here for all of two months. Yet you have the nerve to claim that Essentialaudio is the one with an agenda? Spare us your transparent charade. And thank you Essentialaudio for being both honest and straightforward with us.

Brian,
I have no doubt that the Cd-77 player sounded very well but were you able to test it on other gear??

That would be allot more helpful than 50,000 plus gear, NOT including cables and all in that price.

I believe the Sound labs themselves cost around 30,000?

I would think you could make most anything sound good on that system!
Don’t take this the wrong way, I would just like to know if you have put it in a more real world system, That would be allot more useful to me.

Thanks

Once again essentialaudio, every time you open your mouth you do AMR a HUGE disservice. Rather than having to read your defensive ramblings, the product should speak for itself. The fact that you have to continue to "sell" a product doesn't speak well for such product. If it's really that fantastic and issue free we'll hear about from end users, your credibility given your dealer status makes all your posts in this thread highly suspect.