The D'Agostino amp is one of my favorites - indeed! You have to be careful with isolation. Too much isolation is not good IMO. Isolation causes equipment to store up energy and this energy needs to be released. We are all talking about isolation, but no one is asking "is this really a good thing?" I think we may learn in the near future, that too much isolation is not ideal.
I am narrowing my amp selection down to Audionet, Burmester and Soulution. D'Agostino is still in the running - but I need to hear it on D3's. |
@ Mbovaird, Thats cool, I am from Florida my self!, north west Florida, It is my exsperience with damping factors to sound alot worse than eanything I ever owned!, I bought a Rotel solid state amp back in the mid nintys, the dampning factor was thru the roof!, the amp sounded good, when I bought my first Krell amp, LOL!, that shitt was over!, there are many ways to do dampning, Isolation of your componets is way better than a specification that means, really nothing!, you should check out some still points ultra 5 cones that can be used for componets or speakers, they will do the trick!, you may not take my word on this mike, go and audition some, like you did the amps, you have to admit, I was correct about the Dan D Agistino amps, you may find this to be true with the still points ultra 5 cones, I awaite to hear from you, most enjoyable to talk with you, cheers. |
Vicdamone...I still play, mostly guitar and songwriting. |
I already bought the Raidho D3's.
If you go to the Raidho Acoustics Facebook page - the speakers they are building "for a customer in Florida" are mine! :)
I'm still considering Soulution, Audionet, Viola and D'Agostino. Maybe Sim, Jeff Rowland and Burmester too.
Open to other suggestions. Amps need to have a high damping factor (north of 500 is best). Soulution and Audionet are both over 10,000. Wowser. High damping factor is one of the important specs for control of the difficult, hard, diamond woofers.
The D'Agostino doesn't have a high damping factor, but damn do I love the sound! May not be a fit on my D3's though. TBD. |
Thanks Mike, however, if you are in the market for speakers to go with the Dan D Agistino amps, Look no further than the JBL Everest DD 67000, these speakers will open a whole new world to you with High-End Audio!, You may not take my word on this, Go ahead and listen to these JBL speakers, Pair them with the Agistino amps, Likly, you will never change systems again!, And do the Taralabs top cables with this set-up, Its la,la, Land for sound! |
@ Audiolaybrinth - I flip gear - a lot. It's what I do. A year ago, I had a pair of Sonus Faber Stradivari's and all McIntosh gear. Then I sold all that, and moved to Pass gear. Then I sold all that and moved to ARC gear.....now.....well....you get the picture. I have two systems going and I'm constantly swapping gear in and out.
People who aren't gear swappers have a hard time understanding those who are! I like to switch gear. That's it. No secret. No voodoo magic. Just love to try different things. Whenever I post an ad for something, I get these PM's "why are you selling this?" or "why are you selling that?" I'm not sure people believe me! I like to try different things - that's all.
I have audiophile friends who are similar (and some even worse!) - and others who take years and years to make a decision and upgrade or buy something. There is no right or wrong - whatever floats your boat.
There is very little gear I've had over the past 35 years, that I wished I had kept. Maybe the McIntosh 2301's. They are pretty special, but below average bass control. If you can live with that, oh my, are they good!
Hell, I've bought and sold the Classe CP800 three times! The Classe CAM600's twice! I'm definitely a little nutty! :)
As for D'Agostino amps - I really like what I hear from both Soulution and D'Agostino. Although, admittedly, I was so overwhelmed by the sheer liquidity and musicality of the D'Agostino amps, I was completely awash with emotion to pay proper attention to just the bass!
But I'm between the Soulution and D'Agostino. With the Soulution, I hear more of the music. It has this uncanny ability to sort everything out with no blurring, smudging, muddying whatsoever. Crystal clear. And absolutely the best bass control I've heard - yet.
However, I can't think of two amps that are more opposite - but yet both were incredibly pleasing - but for different reasons. Its almost like a heart vs head battle!
Other than those two (and maybe the Vitus), everything else I've listened to, seemed like more or less, the same or a slight variation of the same - and truthfully, the Classe CAM600's I own remain right up there with many of these - and exceeded many of them too is speed and smoothness. Not sure why they don't get the respect they deserve. Maybe if they were still made in Canada and cost 3 times as much they would! :)
But I digress...I desperately want the D'Agostino's to pair perfectly with my new (just ordered) Raidho D3's, but I'm afraid they may not. The Soulution/Raidho pairing I think will be a much better synergy. The owner of Raidho uses Soulution amps in his home (501's). That says a lot.
Just because I love the D'Agostino amps and the Raidho speakers doesn't mean they will work well together.
My research for pairing with Raidho's has showing the best three are:
1. Soulution (high priced)
2. Jeff Rowland (moderate priced)
3. Sim Audio (most economical)
Mike |
Damn Wolf you're an old war horse. Did you ever build your own plywood cabinets in the early sixties? I had great success with a pair of D-140E 15" JBL Scoops powered by a Marantz 8B right up until the 360 came out. You still playing?
My Bass cabinets: 1969 2011 acoustic 360/361s paper cone, Bergantino 322 paper cone, Bag End D2-10, ELF-18 paper cone, reinforced 1970 Ampeg 8-10" Tone Tubby's Hemp cone, and the rig I use most these days is an Acoustic Image FocusR with a DIY shallow 12" wedge paper cone and the trusty Avalon U5 DI which send my signal to the house speakers which are usually paper cone.
Mbovaird, Hartke uses aluminum cones with good results but are hardly the mainstream of back-line Bass amplification. Chances are every concert you attend your listening to paper. Hi fi is a whole other world. |
@ Mbovaird, Hi, I see you are selling some very nice top tier High-end componets here on the gon, It appears to be nearly your entire system, Do you plan to get one of the Dan D Agistino amps and or pre-amps?, I would admire you hugely if you got eany model Agistno componets!, you know they make a stereo amp as well, basically a mono block that Dan split the power to make a stereo amp, sounds really good!, let me know if you would what you plan to use for a system now, Thankyou so much. |
Well... better to kick a (european) football, or to kick a boulder? |
Oh but it is. The main operative of this thread is 'best'. Remember? However there is friendly competition and then there are European soccer matches. |
Csontos, it is not a competition. Not at all. Enjoy your amp. |
It's the TNT200 that will spank your pebble. But hey, if your happy with it, that's all that matters:) |
My amp has better bass control than all of your hunk a junkers and I'm not going to tell you what it is because I'm the only one who believes me. It's tight, taught and dips down well below an Oprah Winfrey stomach growl. |
Sorry Csontos, I know audio is subjective. The Boulder 1060 is a $25k amp and is very good. It's just you description of Boulder as a "light weight" and blowing them out of the water is a stretch for a boutique amp. I'm sure Mike Bettinger is a good audio engineer, and i'm sure it is a very musical amp. But really Boulder, like Vitus, Rowland etc are all big players in high end, so you'll have to forgive my reaction. The most important thing is how the amp sounds. If it is a good match for your speakers and system, and brings a smile to your face that's all that matters. |
Yea, that's right. That's what I'll do. Yea, uhummm. yep. |
Hahaha, thanks Csontos, I needed a good laugh! |
Boulder shmoulder! My TNT200's 'll blow all those light-weights out of the water. Heck, the name alone'll send em packing! Heck, I'll even put my Mike Bettinger-built GAS500 up against them! Heck, I'll...I'll..I'll think of somethin. And just to show there's no hard feelings, I'll even plug yours in! |
Yes. Peace boys. It's all great stuff. Pick your favorite flavor of ice cream and move on. There are no winners or losers. Just different flavors. Different strokes for different folks. |
I think you know very well Audiolabyrinth I have been subject to various malicious, almost insane attacks on my amplifiers (including in my review of the Boulder 1060), so it's a bit rich to be calling me on that now. Everyone has limits, and mine have been pushed to braking point. Understand there is a cause and effect. I still believe Mbovaird comments were subjectively biased and a disservice to anyone considering Boulder products, because Mbovaird has not spent hundreds of hours researching Boulder products, reading reviews, technical white papers, first hand factory tours and getting to know the designers of their products like I have.
That said, i'm prepared to let bygons be bygons. Yes I have listened to almost every Vitus amp and like them alot. Yes I have also listened to Soulution, Dartzeel, Rowland, Boulder 800 & 1000 series, CH Precision, Audia Flight, Aesthetix, Ayon, Modwright, Bladelius and many others. One day, when I eventually post a virtual thread on this forum, I will paint a clear picture. |
That's hilarious, This is Mbovaird's thread!, He is the op! melby, we all said the Boulder is good, there are alot better amps than my Krell 700cx and a boulder 1060, or any other Boulder amp! Mbovaird's preference with solid state amps is what it is!, You should be proud, He mentioned Vitus amps!, I know you are A vitus fan!, I would like to hear a vitus amp, never heard one, so I cannot comment on the vitus period! we are not tring to be mean to you!, you put us in a defensive mode here!, nobody enjoys that, I know deep down, you do not enjoy negative words to each other, please, lets all get along Melby!, No matter how much of a well seasoned Audiophile you are, people will like what they like!, an example of what i am talking about is, I do not prefer the sound of Thiel speakers, does not mean that they are not good, Just not my flavor, the same thing can be said about the Boulder amps, The Boulder amps are just not Mbovaird's flavor of sound, that certainly does not mean they are not good! we should never take preferences to the point of saying Hateful words to each other, the funny thing is, we all could start talking about that vitus amp, and we all would be best of friends again!, cheers Melbguy1. |
08-24-13: Mbovaird
Melbguy1 - you are paranoid. Move on. You love Boulder - great. Enjoy it. Excuse me? I think you should take your tripe to another forum and leave folks good and alone to enjoy their hobby instead of spreading crap on this forum. You're the one who needs to move on mate...to another forum! |
Melbguy1 - you are paranoid. Move on. You love Boulder - great. Enjoy it. |
Enjoy your Boulder amp.....but no one will convince me otherwise. I know what I heard.
Mbovaird (Threads | Answers | This Thread) That's right, what *you* heard. New is not always better. You don't like the Boulder, good for you. There is always more to the story when members get this animated about defending certain brands. Members reading your comments may rightfully question your agenda. |
Have you heard Soulution amps? Coloration? Hmm...me thinks you haven't heard them.
Have you heard D'Agostino amps? Vitus? Constellation? Anything SOTA? If your reference is an amp designed in 1999, you need to simply enjoy it for what it is or keep an open mind and listen to some of the current SOTA amps.
Clobbering people over the head with an outdated amp, which many love and some don't, is not the appropriate approach. There are no winners and losers. If we are in search of the absolute sound, sonic truth for ourselves, then our opinions are just that. Opinions. You are free to disagree and so are others with you.
As for your price argument, I will happily put a pair of Classe CAM600's (which I also own) up against the 1060 any day of the week and they will handily trounce then in balance, speed, dynamics, measured performance and sonic quality......oh, and they would save to $10,000.
Enjoy your Boulder amp.....but no one will convince me otherwise. I know what I heard. |
08-23-13: Audiolabyrinth
@ Mbovaird, Hi, I was waiting patiently for you of all the posters here!, I knew you would come back and say what you did of the Boulder amps, my post earlier on this thread ring TRUE!, they suck! How eloquent. Did you learn that at University? A guy compares two $55k amps to a $25k amp and prefers the $55k amps...how profound. |
I always find it interesting when people compare amplifiers more than twice the price of your own amp and (surprise surprise) find they sound better. I also find it interesting when those same people espouse clear preferences toward specific colorations and tonal emphasis in amplifiers, whilst conversely displaying an amazing apathy and lack of understanding of a manufacturer's design and manufacturing process in the case of Boulder. |
@ Mbovaird, Hi, I was waiting patiently for you of all the posters here!, I knew you would come back and say what you did of the Boulder amps, my post earlier on this thread ring TRUE!, they suck!, I also knew you would love the Dan D Agistino amps!, He is the same designer of my Krell 700cx stereo amp!, my next amp will be a Agistino amp!, running hot does not bother me, My krell 700cx gets hot big time!, In the winter, if we drive it, and play it for a few hours, it will warm our three bedroom 2 bath house, saves on the power bill when we do that, we get to enjoy tunes, and do not need the central heat on, LOL!, your description of the Dan D Agistino amps is spot on spectacular!, Happy listening! |
Quick update: I was able to audition Constellation, Boulder and D'Agostino amps yesterday. The Constellation Stereo, the Boulder 1060 and the D'Ag monos.
I found the Constellation very smooth, yet detailed, but lacking a little in bass punch - but it could have been the room.
Next up was the D'Agostino. By far, the most musical, liquid sounding amp I have ever heard. They don't sound like other amps. They are like someone took the best of solid state and the best of tubes and smushed them together. Only downside is those little buggars get hot!
Next up was the Boulder 1060. I don't want to start a whole big thing, but lets just say, it was an amp for me. It sounded a little dated and it was like listening to an amp design that is well, 10 or 15 years old. Certainly not SOTA IMO. YMMV.
So for me, the three best SS amps I've heard are Soulution, D'Agostino and Vitus. Vitus is the big sleeper in this group. I would say, picking one, would depend entirely on speakers, the rest of your system (preamp, cabling, etc.) and music preference.
Mike |
Thankyou mapman, Go U.S.A.! |
Sunfire Signature 600 SeriesII. Haven't heard one but Roy Esposito says it's the only amp he's heard with better bottom end than the Acoustat TNT200 monos he builds. Apparently "Other-worldly". |
Jafant: Mapleshade Double Helix speaker cables and Krell CAST cables connecting the KCT preamp to the 400cx. I tried Tara Labs, Harmonic Technology and Audioquest speaker cables in this system over the past 10 years. The Mapleshades sound best in my opinion with the most spatial and low level, ambient content, plus the bass response makes me believe the Thiels are actually flat down to 20 Hz, which of course they are not. |
Bel Canto is located in Minnesota USA I believe. Good value ergonomic products and good customer service I have found as well.
ref1000m specifically is based on Icepower Class D amp modules made by Bang and Olefson (Danish). |
@ Isochronism, Thankyou so much for the kind words, Lol!, I do not get many of them these days, Happy listening. |
@ Mapman, Hi, Where is Bel Canto made at?, interesting your comment is. cheers. |
@ Jafant, Hi, I use Taralbs to great effect, Great presatation, not forward sounding at all, unless your componet does the forward sound, cheers. |
For those using Krell power amps or integrated amps, which brand of Cables/cords are you using? |
BEl Canto ref1000m amps I use currently are as good or better than most anything else I have heard in regards to "bass control". High damping factor of 1000 with these is most likely a factor regarding why. |
Wolf, I saw Johnny A saturday night. He tore it up with taste and tone!! Album plug: "something tuesday morning" |
Audiolabyrinth, I fully took it as a compliment, and my mad man comment was a compliment to all the mad men out there as including them in the fine company of someone of your excellent character!! Cheers |
@ Wc65mustang, No sir, I am not making fun of nobody!,what I said to Isochronism was a compliment in the best regards!, and what I said that I did with a Krell fpb 200 and cewin vegas, I actually did do!cheers. |
My band in Honolulu opened for Led Zeppelin in 1969 and John Paul Jones decided to use the bass amps loaned to us by a local music store...2 Sunn 2000S rigs with the stock large 2X15 JBL cabinets (nobody I knew ever actually owned one of these speakers as the 200S smaller cab was so cool)...plus our bass player's smaller 200S rig. That's a lot of bass for 1969. No clue what Jones had brought for the gig, but it never appeared. |
Who is making fun of whom? Stang, is that proper usage? |
The Sunn 2000s also offered a 2-15 JBL cabinet with D140F's. Audiolabyrinth, you are a mad man!!! HA |
Ummm, it's "decimate" labyrinth.
And you're making fun of others?
That's hilarious. |
@ Isochronism, I did not know you had this equipment!, cerwin vega and JBl is my all time favorite for p.a. speakers, rest assured, your vega 18s would desamate anything in the high-end audio for sheer air movement alone, LOL! a krell would kick on this, how do I know, I have done this before!, I had a Krell fpb 200 on the cerwin vega v15E p.a. speakers, 6 ohms, 106 db sensativity!, that was awsome and very clear after I out fitted everything with the best of polycrystal resonance control, I put thousands of dollars of this stuff on this set-up to great effect!, till this day, the most musical system I have ever heard in my life, bar none! |
My Sunn 2000s w/ matching Cerwin Vega 18" cabinet |
Yea. Plus you need to buy his speaker cables to soften the stab to the ears. |
@ Mbovaird, thankyou for your intro to this player, I will audition it to find out if its my flavor of tone and presatation, cheers. |
Isn't Class A supposed to be superior for bass control? Not necessarily, in my experience, especially for the tight, controlled type bass you described. Good Class A amps may have realistic sounding, tuneful, well-defined bass, but not necessarily the tightest and most controlled bass, which may be found in some Class AB and even Class D amps. Of course the Class A Krells may be an exception. |
I don't want to get off topic with discussions of a CD player, but I will say the EAR CD player sounded very warm, without any hint of typical digital edge or fatigue. There is digital I can listen to for hours (like the Linn Klimax DS, Akurate DS and even the new Marantz NA11S1), then there is digital that I can only stomach for an hour or less because while listening, things are "sticking out" which causes fatigue (I guess my brain has to work too hard!).
That being said, I will still take my analog/vinyl rig over everything "digital".
YMMV.
Mike |
