Depends on the size of the room and how loud you listen. I have 3A signatures and power them with a AR Classic 60 in a small room at moderate levels. I have no power issues. I will say I haven't tried them with a higher power amp so I don't know for a fact it won't be better, but I prefer tubes and eight 6550s are enough for me! |
I've always used between 100 and 250 watts of ss power with my 2ce Sigs & 3A Sigs. Other than the sound of the amps, I didn't notice any difference in "headroom".
If you go with the Quatro, I would imagine you wouldn't need quite as much power, since they have their own powered subs. |
Not a Vandy owner, and would be interested to read what others have to say. But I have recently moved from smaller to biggger amps, and have been pleased with the relative effortlessness and lack of congestion I seem to hear, at least with less efficient speakers, even where I hadn't sensed the effort and congestion before. Still, I would imagine wattage is not the only, or even the main reason. Bigger power supplies help dynamic headroom and transient response greatly, for instance. Damping factor important too. Anyway, it must certainly be true that if the first watt isn't good, it doesn't matter how many more you have. Of course room size and musical preferences (and damn near everything else) matter too. But my experience has certainly been that, other things equal, bigger equal better, and decidedly not just louder, for amps. |
Amps hit their sweet spot at differing points in the power range. I have a pair of Vandy 2c's that I ran with a 250w Bryston amp that was as sweet as it got in my listening room. I tried a pair of ASL Hurricanes with the Vandy's and even though it had more headroom the sound was more muddled, less defined and less dynamic. When the cost of the added power is figured in the choice is clear. There may be many reasons why the single amp works better in my situation, many have been mentioned already by others.
BTW the Hurricanes worked like magic on a pair of Alon's that I have, one of the most musical sounding pairings I have ever heard. |
The Quatro VK-55 mono blocks would be a fantastic combo!!! If you can do this do it and forget playing around, you would have to add a pair of 2Wq sub and all the associated equipment to come close. I had 3A Sig's, a pair of 2Wq's, M5-HP filters etc. etc. I drove this with Pass X-150 (pre- subs), Quicksilver V-4's and ARC VS-115 (could have used a pair of ARC VS-55 like Vandersteen did at shows with Quatro's) With the 2Ce Sigs2 and no subs I think you need min 120 tube watts per channel to get punch in the low end. |
Samhar,
Tks ur response. Suprised at ur comments as dealer mentioned that 110wpc w the vk 55 monoblocks r definitely way underpowered for the Vandersteens quatro...
No chance for audition :( |
Go to the Vandersteen website then to the Quarto wood page and view the Qutro's and ARC VS-55 at a show!!! My Vandersteen dealer drove his home set of 5A's with VS-55 mono blocks. The Quatro and 5A's have their own internal bass amps driving the woofers (As Ecruz stated), you may personally like more power but it isn't "necessary". The SPL that you listen at may be a factor, if you can afford 100 +wpc mono blocks go for it they'll be great but if your looking at a reasonable output of cash with high return the 55's are the call. I think something to keep in mind is I don't have a horse in the race like the dealer may, something I have to remind myself of constantly when I'm speaking with a dealer!! |
I'm not a Vandersteen user. Vandersteen recommends between 40-160 Watts into 8 Ohms for these speakers. I would humbly suggest you lean more towards the upper end rather than the lower end of this range. |
Vandersteen speakers are capable of extraordinary performance. Even more important than raw power is quality of upstream components. Your best bet is to bring a pair home and try it with your stuff in your room. |
Unsound
U talkin abt quatro or 2ce? |
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I wouldn't say that's true - I got great results using an Audio Refinement 50-watt integrated with my 2Ce Signatures. Very nice sound and I did not have to turn it up to super-high levels (and I like to rock).
Eventually, though, I did want something with a great phono stage built in, so I opted for a Plinius 8200 MKII, which is quite powerful.
The Plinius sounds better, no doubt about it, but I dunno if that's because of the quality of the components - or something else?
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I have had both Vandy 2s and 3s and powered them with VTL Compact 100s and DeLuxe 120s with great results, and I like to rock. I also have run the 3s on Parasound JC-1s and they sounded great, but I don't think it was as much the additional power, just better amps. I would look at 100wpc as a minimum for me, but all watts are not created equal and listening preferences and rooms vary.
Good luck!
Joe |
Theunderlyingtheme, what wouldn't you say is true? |
Somewhat contrary to a earlier post my AE-25 Superamp outshines my PS Audio HCA-2 driving my 2C's, 25 watts vs. 150. Sorry if this is not much help, I think the old 2C's had a slightly higher specified sensitivity. I think I can tell you with confidence that the Vandersteens will reveal the superior amp regardless of its specified output. In my room (16x24)a 25w of class A tube amp beats out a popular (I concur) 150w class D. |
Unsound,
A dealer was telling you that the 2Ce Sigs won't reach their true potential unless you drive them with something that's 200 watts...
That just seems a little silly.
Driving them with a 175-watt integrated does give them some more "headroom" than a 50-watt integrated (I guess that's the way to put it), but I just don't want you thinking that it's going to be worlds of difference.
The gear you already have should be plenty good!
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Theunderlyingtheme, the dealer wasn't telling ME anything, but thank you for the clarification. |
Hello unsound,
I have Vandersteen 5s and I am powering them with a 60 wpc tube amp. My room is fairly large and I am quite happy with the sound level. I don't agree with the blanket statement made by the dealer. |
This thread was started by Art80342, not me and relates to the Vandersteen 2ceSig2's.
Vandersteen recommends between 30 and 200 watts for the 5a's. I think it fairly reasonable to expect the 5's with their built in amplified subs in less need of external power than the 2's. Vandersteen cautions about over amplifying.
FWIW, when possible I like to use the maximum recommended power, but always fall back on the old audiohphile suggestion of using at least double the manufacturers' recommended minimum power recommendation. |
Unsound,
Sorry 'bout that - I mistakenly thought you started the thread. |
No need to apologize, I just didn't want to hijack the thread. |
Point taken regarding original poster and the built-in subs. I have used my 60 watt ARC amp exensively with 2s, 3s, and 5s, with roughly the same loudness results. It looks like the rated sensitivity and power recommendations are about the same for the 5 and 2CeSig2 (40 to 200 watts for the 5, 40 to 160 watts for the 2CeSig2). |
Thanks all for contribution and advise and opinions ....
was about to commit on a pair of dealers demoed QUATRO ... but stumbled upon the REFERENCE 3A - 'GRAND VEENA' that is
- abt same price range
- getting rave reviews (unbelievable compliments)
- cross overless design
- looks better (not important)
what wld u choose? my pre/power amps are BAT vk32/vk55 ...
no chance for audition on ref 3A :(
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Everyone says make sure your amp(s) is(are) compatible. The two speakers seem to be opposites! The GV have loads of inner detail and are bass shy, the Quatro has mucho bass but not the inner detail of the GV. Personally if I had to choose I'd take the GV's. |
I'd suggest choosing amplification that suits your speakers, not speakers that suit your amplification. |
Two good speakers. I don't think it will be easy for someone to tell you which to choose, but have to agree with Unsound that you should choose your speakers first and then decide on the amps. The speaker truly defines the type of sound you will get and you have to decide which you prefer. |
Oh...speaker defines the sound type but the BAT house sound esp in the mid range is to die for... So the BAT pre/power will remain.
Head the quatro w BAT pre/power nice....
Sent a query to Red 3A and they said tat BAT amps mate well w Grand Veena...
Sigh...can only intent to buy without audition ...
Tks u all for suggestion and opinions so far... |
I was fortunate to demo the Grand Veena and the Vandersteen 5A one afternoon.
First up was the Grand Veena.
Very good sound, nice integration considering all the drivers( Iam a stat or concentric type).
I was impressed.
Then the Vandy 5A.
A certain simiarity, in the sense that all the drivers were coherent,very fast like the Grand Veena, but just so much more weight to everything, even violins.
Of the two the twice as expensive Vandy was the winner, but if you don't have the funds, the Grand Veena was a close second.
I haven't listened to Vandy 2 since the early 1990s when I owned a pair and didn't listen to the 3 or Quatro so I can't comment on their place in all of this.
Maybe they would surprise me also and for a lot less money than the two contenders.
So far the Grand Veena is my pick in the under $10,000.00 bracket. |
I am a Vandersteen user. These speakers are one of the great bargains at any of their price levels. The only sure way of deciding if the speaker/amp combination is to your liking is to set them up in your room and listen to them together. In my experience the quality of amp is even more important than the power output of it. Richard says that most user guarantee return cards say they use either Ayre or BAT equipment. |
I, like one of the earlier posters in this thread have used VTL compact 100's
to power my 2ce sigs. I thought they sounded wonderful until I threw in a
380 watt Rotel 1090. This amp took the Vandys to the next level!
Since then, I have tried other solid state designs rated at 200 watts or above,
and have come to the conclusion that the 2ce's sound there best with big power. At least for my ears. |
As a hard core Vandersteen lover and owner all the info I've heard and read about Vandys says that they like power, and I find that to be true. But I've also been told that the quality of the amp is equally important. You want a big power supply and transformers. I used to have 2CIs, which I loved and still miss, and was pushing them with a Parasound HC 100WPC amp which sounded nice, but I couldn't really push the 2CIs with it, as they will take 160 watts. I found an old Soundcraftsmen Pro Power 10, which is actually 2 completely separate bridgeable amps in one chassis, and it's great because then you can bi-amp from one unit. The Pro Power 10 puts out something like 235 WPC into 8 ohms, and as soon as I hooked it up the 2CIs started roaring. It's nice to have all that power because I can be throwing 100 watts into my speakers and the amp is just breezing along. I think that all equipment sounds better when it's not being run at close to full capacity. And if you can find any MFA tube amps jump on them. A friend of mine has a pair and they are the best I've heard yet, better than McCormick and Krell and Perraux and McIntosh and everything else. What a wonderful sounding pair of amps. And plenty of power, 200 wpc plus. But I digress. YES, more power is better.
MJWPicMan. |
Please indulge me bringing up an old thread. Given, as I state under my system, I need to use my 2ce sigs in my tv setup room, I feel I am wasting the classe amp. I am considering a wyred for sound dac 1 as an upgrade to my listed secondary system which is turning out to be primary system. Is it crazy to move the smaller Nad amp to the Vandersteen 2ce system given that its main function is tv/ blu Ray?
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I get excellent sound and loud enough for me with a CJ CAV-50 45W integrated tube amp, with Vandy 2ce sigII. Of course my room is 14x16x8 ft.
Vinny |
Audiowoman
As a thought you could get casters that permit furniture movement on carpeted floors at Home Depot or Lowe's for less than $20. Place them under the four corners of your stands, this would allow you to slide the systems from one room to the next. I did this while following the Master Set set-up instructions under my 3A Signatures and it worked great. These also make it easy to move a stand out away from the wall to make component changes when needed. Hope this helps with your dilemma. |
Thanks, Ig316B, that's a cool idea!
We actually ended up leaving the 2ce's right where they are for the TV/blu ray stuff and traded in the 1C's on a used pair of mint Aerial 7 B's that fit the space well and sound fantastic. Problem solved - wallet emptied! |
