Anybody compared Adagios with other speakers people gush over at A'gon: Zu, Tyler, Salk, Daedelus, etc.?
There aso many speakers that are supposed to be "a steal at their price" or "the best up to 2-3 times the price" that some accumulation of A/B experience seems necessary. |
nOrh is a company in Thailand (www.norh.com). The nOrhs feature top of the line Scanspeak drivers and a very rigid marble (or synthetic marble, depending on the model) cabinet, but the stock crossover for their best models aren't very well-designed and use cheap parts. Dennis Murphy optimized the crossover for two nOrh models (the 9.0 and mini 9.0), but didn't have time to build me a pair of crossovers himself, so he and "Marbles" over at audiocircle referred me to Jim Salk. Dennis Murphy and Jim Salk have worked together on several speaker projects, including most of the current models you see on salksound's website (www.salksound.com) and Jim took Dennis' specs plus my desire for the absolute best crossover that could be made and voila! I, along with a handful of others who have shelled out some serious money on crossover parts and expert labor, have probably the best-sounding nOrh speakers in existence. :)
I've emailed AZ about the conspicuous absence of the Adagio on their website, but received no response, and the speaker is still not listed. It has been out for almost a year, though!
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Aggielaw: I currently own nOrh mini 9.0's with the Murphy-designed optimal crossover, hand-build with the best components available by Jim Salk.
Now I am confused. Does salk make a line called nOrh? I went to salksound.com and could find no mention of it. Another question for anyone, is there a link to Adagios on Acoustic Zen's site? You'd think so but I didn't find it. |
A couple of people have asked me about the Sasons in addition to and/or compared to the Adagios. Below is a copy-and-paste of an email I sent to someone this morning.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for my assertion that the Sason "might be the best speaker on the planet" but based on my experience (which, admittedly, isn't as vast as many on a'gon) I believe the Sasons may be the best speaker (to my ears) because they sound less like a speaker and more like life than any other speaker I've ever heard - and by a wide margin.
One note on the Sasons before I copy and paste: the pair I heard were in a very small room (maybe 12x10x8) and only had 60 hours on them, so they were nowhere even close to broken in. I think the Adagios I heard only had 100 hours on them or so. The bass response on the Adagios may get even better with more time on them, and the bass was already surprisingly good, as I may have written before.
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I'm happy to tell you what I think of the speakers. Both speakers have such distinctive strengths that I don't think opinions could vary much as to the character of the speakers, although some people may prefer one over the other.
As background, let me say first I currently own nOrh mini 9.0's with the Murphy-designed optimal crossover, hand-build with the best components available by Jim Salk. The nOrhs are known for their fantastic mid-bass, soundstaging, and imaging. I've not found a speaker (of any kind) at $5k or less that I like better overall than my nOrhs (although I've found several that I'd take over a stock pair of nOrhs in a heartbeat.) The only exception to that statement might be the Adagios.
Let me start by saying the Sason is unlike any other speaker I've ever heard. I've not heard Maggies, but I've heard Conrad Johnson and Martin Logan speakers plus a host of dynamic driver and line array speakers, and the Sason doesn't sound remotely like *any* of them. There's so much air, and the image is so holographic, it's eerie. I've listened to several speakers that people say "convey a sense of air" and they all still sound generally like other speakers, just a little better at instrument separation. The Sasons are so much better at separation and air that it can't even be compared with any other speaker that I've heard. I listened to some $100k McInosh line arrays the same day I heard the Sasons, and let me tell you, the Sasons are almost as good, and even better in terms of air, soundstage, and space. I haven't heard the $20k monitors that people say the Sasons can compete with, but after hearing floorstanders that range from $500 to a hundred thousand, I find myself seriously doubting there is another speaker in existence that can compete with the Sasons in terms of soundstaging and "air" or separation of instruments/performers.
The only concern I have with the Sason is the pair I heard only had 60 hours on it. I believe Rob and Steve are using highly-modified Scanspeak drivers, which are notorious for taking hundreds of hours to break in. Even the stock Scanspeak drivers in my nOrhs took probably 500 hours to get really settled in and sound like they do now. So although the air and soundstage is already presented at 60 hours on the Sasons, it sounds like you aren't getting anything below about 500Hz on them. You hear the sounds and know they are there, but it's not "right" yet. I'm sure once the Sasons break in the tweeter cools a little (not that it's really hot now, especially compared to a stock Scanspeak tweeter) and the woofer really comes to life with a tremendously rich mid-bass and bass, but that will take at least a couple hundred hours, and then they won't really be all they can be until 600 hours (which is Steve Rothermel's assertion.) I have a hunch that, due to the modifications to the drivers, it may take a bit longer than that. I have to tell you, though, that if the Sason drivers break in and sound as good tonally as my nOrhs - and they should sound even better (otherwise why modify them, unless that's the secret to the air and soundstage) - these speakers will, to my ear, be the best speakers on the planet in my experience. I fully expect that to be the case, and if it isn't I will probably return my pair and just stick with my nOrhs for now. But I doubt I'll have to return the Sasons. They're magic, plain and simple.
Now that I've gushed about the Sasons, let me do a short comparison of them with the Adagios. The Adagios have a ridiculously "clean" sounding top end. The ribbon tweeter they use bests every other tweeter I've heard (including the Sason's) in producing a clean, lightning fast top with amazing decay. High-pitch percussion, such as cymbals and triangles are perfect. Overall, the Adagios are just so fast, detailed, and transparent that I just closed my eyes, tapped my feet, and enjoyed not just music, but life. I had so much fun listening to the Adagios that I stopped listening intently for every little nuance and just enjoyed them. They're the only speaker, Sasons included, that have ever made me do that. I'll bet the Adagios mated with an REL ST-series sub would be a combination that could last a lifetime.
In conclusion, I would have to say that unless the new $7500 price tag of the Sasons doesn't bother you at all, I'd go with the Adagios. They don't do the air like the Sasons - nothing does - but the soundstage and imaging are amazing and they're the most "fun" speakers I've heard. And at $3700 (or even at the new $4300 price) they are a steal compared to their competition. If you want what might be the best overall speaker on the planet and are willing to pay $7500 for it, go with the Sasons. The Sasons will compete with anything at any price, and best almost all if not all the others, so at $7500 they're a steal. $7500 is $7500, though. That's a lot of money.
Please feel free to send me any questions you might have. I'm happy to help in whatever way I can.
Howard |
For those interested, F2Audio, just got in a pair of Adagio speakers. Note: we are dealers located in Northern VA / Washington, DC area.
We just set them up today, so no listening notes yet. Over the next week we will be driving them with solid state, digital, and tubes to see what they can do with various electronics. |
Aggielaw, could you give us an update on the rsa sason speakers you were going to audition a couple of weeks ago. thank you. |
I wonder how the Zen Acoustic Adagio stacks up against the Zu Cable Druid? Anyone done a comparison? |
Joe,
I too would be interested in minimum power requirements. I am looking to match my 22 watt SET with new speakers and am leaning to Daedalus. I like AZ cables and would be interested in the speakers too, if they can be driven by 20 odd SET watts
David |
Robert,
The transmission line terminates in an opening on the front of the Adagio, so I don't see why they wouldn't excel in a 14x14x10 room. My new living room will be 20x14x10 and I'm certain they'd be magic in that relatively small room. |
I have a 14x14 room with 10ft ceilings.....can these work in this enviorment? If not do you have any recomendations? I have a budget of $ 5000 for a quality 5.1 set up I listen to 50% MUSIC AND MOVIES.
Robert |
Joe,
From your experience, can the Adagios be driven by low powered SETs such as the Art Audio Carrisa?
Roy |
Aggielaw,
I'm the dealer in Chicago so take what I say with a grain of salt and bias on my part.
That said, I've found the soundstage to be as wide and deep as some of the best speakers I've heard. The limitation seems to lie with the associated equipment that your using to drive the speakers. I've put several solid state amps in and while the sound is very good, the soundstage slightly clapses. I put a Grommes 360 monoblocks in and the soundstage becomes almost larger than life. The presentation becomes 360 degrees, almost like surround sound depending on the CD your playing and the way it was engineered.
I've also found that the best sounds with these speakers come from a combination of a solid pre and a tube amp. I've had the speakers at least 6 weeks now and they have 400 hours plus on them. It took around 100 hours to really get comfortable with them with minor changes over the next 100 hours.
FYI - the solid state amps/class D amps I've tested with include the Luminance KST-150 with some small upgrades and the NuForce Ref9.02's. Preapms used include the Modwright SWL 9.0 SE, H-Cat, Heron Audio VSPT2. Source equipment include a highly upgraded Gyrodec SE with ORBE upgrades, April Musics Stello DAC and CD Transport, Sony XA777ES SACD/CD player and the Modwright 3910 w/Absolute Truth Modifications. Cabling is Revelation Audio Labs for speakers and interconnects and some power cords, also, Virtual Dynamics David and Power 3 power cords.
Joe
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Hi Dgolly,
No, Anna Log was just her professional name. Her first real name was Valarie. Sorry, but I'm not sure of her last name. I think it was Kurlycheck.
All the best,
Tom |
Sorry to hear about aforementioned passing. No personal disrespect meant.
You mean to say there was a reviewer and the name was really Anna Log? |
Dgolly,
I thought you should know that Sallie Reynolds is the person who did the recent review of the AZ speakers. Anna Log sadly passed away about 2 years ago. I had the privilege of meeting her at NJ Audio Society meeting about a year before she died.
Enjoy,
Tom |
Sirspeedy, thanks! Will do on the Sason impressions.
Howard |
Howard,very interesting post.Thank you,for it!I have a friend considering the A/Z's.
Also,could you post your opinion of the Ridge Street speakers,when that occurs?
Best! |
FWIW, I was in Kansas City last week, and Al at Primus Audio was extremely gracious and allowed me about 4 hours at his place to hear some big-bang-for-your-buck speakers. Here are my thoughts on those speakers, as I wrote elsewhere...
(BTW, the real purpose when I went to Al's was to hear the VS VR-4Jr's - I'd never even heard of Dali or that Acoustic Zen had a speaker before Al set them up for me.)
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Al at Primus Audio in Kansas City was kind enough to let me spend about 4 hours at his place last week while I was up there, and I got to compare four solid speakers in the +/- $2k-$4k range.
I listened to a pair of Von Schweikert VR-4Jr's, Dynaudio Focus 220's, Dali Helicon 400's and the AZ Adagios. I spent about an hour with each speaker, and listened to six widely differing tracks, relistening to what are key passages to my ear several times in each track.
The Adagios won hands down. The Dynaudios were very pleasant but not at all transparent, and the Dalis had a nice top end (I really liked that super tweeter above 12.5k) but were only moderately transparent. The Adagios were next; more on that in a minute. I saved what I thought would be the best for last: the highly-regarded 4-Jr's that I'd been dying to hear because of their reputation on the 'net. Unfortunately, they disappointed me with a bit of boomy bass (the room was well treated, for those wondering, but did have a 6dB rise around 60Hz, although none of the other speakers sounded boomy) and they sounded very slow and weighty. The soundstage wasn't what I had heard it to be, either; it was pretty narrow to my ears. Imaging was excellent though. Maybe the problem was I listened to them right after the Adagios.
In short, the Adagios were amazing for a $3700 speaker. Lightning fast with beatiful decay - thanks no doubt to the circular ribbon tweeter - and they had surprising bass for just two 5 1/4-inch woofers. (The manual says they are 6 1/2" drivers, but we measured them, and the actual cones are 5 1/4; the 6 1/2 includes the metal mounting plate around the cones.) My only complaint was the soundstage seemed a little narrower than I'd like, and they almost seemed *too* fast and light to my ears. They disappeared very nicely though, which surprised me since they don't have a narrowed front baffle, and I found myself eventually letting my mind shut down and just enjoying the music instead of constantly trying to "hear deeper" into the music.
Al told me these are "transmission line" speakers and that really helped the cones keep pace with the ribbon tweeter. Whatever it was, I'm still amazed at the speed of those speakers.
Frankly, the Adagios were the only of the 4 speakers I heard that I thought bested my Murphy-modified nOrh 9.0's. At $3700 I don't see how I can not buy a pair when I upgrade, unless the Ridge Street Audio Sasons I audition this weekend can blow the Adagios away. The Sasons are $1500 more, but they'd have to be truly amazing for me to steer away from the Adagios as my next speaker.
Howard |
....but where in NYk can I hear them? They aren't even mentioned in Acoustic Zen's website. I assume it's the same company. |
Dgolly, I have to agree with you about the review. It was a little "lite" from an information standpoint. However, the review did tweak my curiosity enough that I will try to hear them. As always I'll make my develop my own opinion. |
I'm in NYK. Where can I hear them?
Also, pertaining Sallie Reynolds or Anna Log or whoever writes TAS reviews, give me a break. There were no fewer than 4 speaker reviews in current issue. They love everything. The Revel F52 is not only good, it's their Revel fave. The Focal is a masterpiece even though it's Focal's entry stuff no less. The Adagio is so good it's beyond description. The $599.00 pair matched with the $400 Cambridge electronics approached high end. The Tyler's, magical. No measurements at all. Almost no hard facts. Are they biwirable? Anything about placement? Just airy-fairy stuff like they make the hairs on the back of your neck waltz.
Plus, specifically pertaining to Adagios, can't fail to notice the Adagio ad pages earlier. And the wording in the review comes straight from the ad, the stuff about lack of distortion and what not. I have no reason to doubt the Adagios are good, but TAS reviews are totally useless. |
yeah...me too. if I only didn't work there... |
Audphile1, your assumption is correct. Not sure exactly WHAT I'd travel to NJ for :<)! |
Rja, that's too bad. I am assuming you won't travel to NJ just to audition these speakers. |
Rja, I am in the Twin Cities. Please let me know when is the good time so you can audition these speakers. Mustang, I will get back to you later regarding the comparison of my reference speakers. I just have not had time.
Thanks
Anthuan
763-218-2433 |
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where are you? If you are in NY/NJ area, I can tell you where you can audition these. |
I see these are scheduled for a review by Chip Stern at 6Moons. As always it will be interesting to hear another perspective. I believe the price has gone from $3700 to $4000, still a good price for outstanding speaker. I'm going to make an effort to hear these if there are any in my area. BTW: I didn't see these on the Acoustic Zen site. |
they are very good. I heard them. They require about a week of continues play to break in to a degree that they become listenable though. After that, it just gets better.
Recommend tube electronics with them. I heard them with Bel Canto integrated and Blue Circle integrated and Blue Circle hybrid integrated sounded better, although Bel Canto was no slouch.
Speakers are beuatifully finished, they look great.
At the time, I found no shortcomings for a speaker with a proce tag of $3700, but now I heard the price went up. I don't know how much they cost anymore.
I think these speakers are suitable for a wide selection of music, including classical, jazz and rock.
I would not hesitate to recommend these speakers.
check out this other post I left some comments on right after I auditioned these speakers. My memory was fresher then than it is now about how they sounded.
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?cspkr&1136561626&read&keyw&zznew+acoustic+zen |
Anthuan.In the June/July issue of The Absolute Sound Sallie reynolds has a review of the Adagio. She says these speakers are so good they're difficult to write about. Her only minor pick is they don't do 16hz but only because there not sopposed to. In the same issue she also did a review of Tyler Linbrook System II. She had some small picks on these. I was dissapointed that she did not make any direct comparrisons between the two since they both are in the same issue and about the same price.Can you tell us more about how your Andra II and the Adagio compare? Are you one of the lucky people who have two systems or do you swap out speakers in the same room? |
I am just waiting for somone to ask this question. The direct answer to your question is that they sound Exceptional....
I have not seen any reviews on these speakers but here are my initial assessements after 45 hours of continuous playing time. Here is a quick snap shot and I will go into greater details later. I do not have the owner's manual for my samples so I dont know that is the recommended break-in period is but I expected to be longer than 40+ hours. If you're in the market for a pair of speakers in this price range, do not buy until you have a chance to audition these speakers.
The Adagio is beautiful, sonically and cosmetically. It stands about ~50 inches tall... You can get the specs from AZ.
Created a very good three-dimensional space, wide, deep, and very stable with a large sweet spot. Female voices such as Diana Krall, Salena Jones, Partrica Barber... never sounded better. The highs are so extended, airy and detailed that I actually hear a lot more stuffs that I have not heard before with my reference speakers, the Andra II. The integration of the drivers/crossover are very seamless across the entire sound spectrum. The decay of transient is unbeleivable when listened to the pluck of the guitar string on the SACD, Friday Night In San Franciso and the crash of a cymbal on track 11 of Particia Barber, Blue cafe. Anyway, I have to take my kids to baseball now but will be back later..... I am not exactly sure what the heck is the under-hung driver
Happy Listening,
AnThuan |
