Look for OCC copper with teflon dielectric. Several manufacturers offer this, including Acoustic Zen which is what I'm using, i.e., AZ Double-Barrel shotgun. I've heard that Nirvana cables are good. Probably made from the same stuff as Acoustic Zen.
Avoid OFC copper because it's quite inferior, e.g., Audio Art.
Also, avoid polyethylene dielectrical.
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Gelaw AP Oval 9 should provide good weight and bass for your long runs. I've auditon all the AP products and would not hesitate to purchase the AP Oval 9. I can tell you from evaluating monitors with 6" drivers that AP cables can improve bass notes. |
Thanks for the comments.
Does the AP Oval 9 use teflon as the dielectric? I know the AP 9 is not OCC, while the AP 8 is. The Satori uses solo crystal copper (OCC) and a teflon dielectric.
What type of bass does the 9 vs the Satori produce? Is it highly detailed tight and defined or more slam and a bit bloated? With 2 12" Dynaudio woofers in each Andra ll, I think it is better to be detailed and save the slam for my subwoofers.
From all I read, it seems the Satori cable is right in between the AP 9 and 8 in sonic signature. It seems that the Satori has a bigger and more holographic soundstage with a bit more detail, which is all good, but is it as warm and smooth as the 9? A non-fatiguing smooth sound/treble is a top priority due to the very revealing/high resolution nature of the esotar tweeters, particularly with movie sound tracks.
Which cable would perform better at lower volume?
The Satori is 10 awg, is that enough for a 25' run? Is the resistance low enough on this cable? I will be using different lengths for the front 3 so the less reistance the better.
Thanks |
i have been using AP Oval 9 with Mcintosh 501's and Eggleston Andra II's for some time now. i find the combination very nice, balanced from top to bottome. |
The Satoris will be fine at low volumes. The OCC copper and teflon will be better, by a wide margin better, than OFC copper over a 25' run. The bass will be fine with 10 AWG over that distance. The OFC copper will compromise your sound in awful ways. |
The Cardas Copper may not be OCC but it is very, very good stuff. I recommend A Cardas cable with "Golden" in it's name. I kid you not, the problem is the cost. You can't buy used due to the lengths needed, but if I were you I would ask the Cable Company to lend you a cable you are interested in. Can you change the set up at all for audition? |
Yes, thinking of temporarily moving my side speakers (EW fontaine lls) to the front to test various wire. What are your thoughts on the Clear series vs the Golden Reference? I though the Goldens may be a bit too warm and too dark for a theater application. Clear Sky is at the outer edge of my budget but it's only 12 awg. Clear Light is 8 or 9 awg, which is better for my long runs, but it will be too expensive. |
Also it seems by everything I have read, the revised Oval 9 projects a bigger sound stage, more detail and more refined bass than the early Oval 9. Still smooth though even with the added detail. Maybe the new Oval 9 closed the gap a bit with the AZ Satori?
Does anyone know how warm and smooth the Clear series is? It may be a bit more neutral then the 9 or Satori. Maybe not ideal for me? There is very little written on the Clear speaker cable.
** Smoothness** defined articulate bass, good detail and maybe just a bit warmer than neutral is what I am after. Movie sound tracks can get a bit edgy at times on a very high resolution system. What I am not after is a cable that is so warm that it sounds blurry and lacks detail.
A good speaker cable shootout would be the Oval 9 vs the Satori vs the Clear Sky/Light. |
Gelaw, read this thread:
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1239238185&read&keyw&zzsatori+oval+9 |
Thank you for the link. I am familiar with that thread and it's very informative. I started this thread to see if anyone has compared the Satori and the Oval 9 since that 2009/2010 thread in a system that was closer to mine.
Pops seems to have a system close to what mine will be so his comment seems encouraging.
One question, is the Satori warmer than neutral or more towards neutral? I see differing opinions on this, but what I see consistently is that the Satori is very smooth. |
[Does the AP Oval 9 use teflon as the dielectric?]
Could not confirm if teflon dielectric is used for the cable. Reviewed online brochure for additional details.
[What type of bass does the 9 vs the Satori produce? Is it highly detailed tight and defined or more slam and a bit bloated?]
It provides a bit more slam and more detail from my listening experience. If youre already worried that 12" driver is too big, bloated, soft, or overly warm, Analysis Plus is probably not your cable. |
I use AZ Satori Shotguns and in my high-rez system they do all the things you specify, plus adding a slam and focus to the bottom end like no other I've tried, and I've tried lots of cables. Can't comment on the others, but the AZ are spot on, IMO. You can get used pairs frequently for about half price or less, which makes them a bargain, and if they are not what you're looking for, it makes for an easy resale for little or no loss. They are VERY thick, though. |
I used both AZ Satori and AP Oval 9. Actually Satori replaced Oval 9. Satori is much better cable, bigger soundstage, transparent, clear, more detailed, extended treble, more "air". AP just "heavy" sounding. |
Thanks for the info Jkuc. Can I ask you did the AZ or the AP have smoother sound (especially treble)? Was one a bit warmer than the other? What speakers did you compare them on? I have sensitive hearing to treble so this becomes part of the equation. I like everything you said about the AZ, except when you say "extended highs"... As long as the highs are super smooth and maybe a touch warmer than neutral. |
Before you kick sand at what I am going to suggest you might want to try it. I had more expensive speaker cabling which I replaced at the suggestion of someone who has been in the audio business for a few years. The cable I used to replace what I had is Acoustic Zen 4 x 12 in wall. I use two internal runs per post in a double shotgun for twin post connections. I find it to be as transparent as anything I have tried on up to 1k per 3m pair cables. For me simple, clean pure good grade copper seems to work better than fancy dielectrics and exotic coatings etc. Don't get me wrong I think cables make a huge difference, I was just shocked at how transparent sounding this very simpl AZ in wall cable is. |
No sand kicking here. All advice is welcome. |
AP Oval 9 and AZ Satori are different animals. I used both of them on JmLab Electra, fast, transparent speakers with slightly accentuated trebble. Satori is smooth, no problem at all. As I mentioned before AP is "heavy" sounding, not to much "air". AZ cable are known for strong bass as well but compared to AP, Satori sounds lighter, you can hear ambience of the venue much better, Satori is more refined as well. I would recommend AP Hologram II. You pay a bit more and you get more, Hologram has a tad stronger bass, sound is a bit more saturated, better fleshed out. Hologram is the best value of AZ cables in my opinion. No worries about treble. |
Interesting response Jkuc. Is the AZ Hologram II difficult to work with? I have heard that the wire is very stiff and it's difficult to keep them tightly connected to the spades.
It seems by your post that the differences are not that subtle. Do you think these differences would mainly be detectable with 2 channel music listening or would they be equally apparent in a reference home theater?
I would think my Egglestonworks would benefit from the AZ's more full bodied and saturated sound. I understand that the AZ are smooth, but are they smoother/warmer sounding than the AP Oval 9?
From what I read, it appears that the AZ Satori and Hologram are closer in sound to the descriptions the AP Solo Crystal 8 or the Cardas Clear Light. |
I would like to know the difference sounds of those cables myself, please advice. |
I have some results from my speaker cable trials. I tried the following speaker wire: Cardas Clear Light, JPS SC V, AP: 9, Solo Crystal 8, Purist Audio: Musaeus, Elementa Advance, Aqueous and Venustas.
My processor and amps are now McIntosh with Egglestonworks speakers. The speaker wire that sounded the best for my application was the Purist Audio Venustas. Very natural dialogue with great midrange, but not in excess or bloated, effortless full bodied smooth sound, large 3 dimensional sound stage, and fairly high resolution that was not edgy or fatiguing in any way. Lots of testing, but I am now very happy with the results.
During the demo process I learned just how different speaker cables sound. Without demoing various speaker wire in your particular system, it's impossible to predict which one will perform the best. Reading and member assistance can help narrow it down though. :) |
I have some results from my speaker cable trials. I tried the following speaker wire: Cardas Clear Light, JPS SC V, AP: 9, Solo Crystal 8, Purist Audio: Musaeus, Elementa Advance, Aqueous and Venustas.
My processor and amps are now McIntosh with Egglestonworks speakers. The speaker wire that sounded the best for my application was the Purist Audio Venustas. Very natural dialogue with great midrange, but not in excess or bloated, effortless full bodied smooth sound, large 3 dimensional sound stage, and fairly high resolution that was not edgy or fatiguing in any way. Lots of testing, but I am now very happy with the results.
During the demo process I learned just how different speaker cables sound. Without demoing various speaker wire in your particular system, it's impossible to predict which one will perform the best. Reading and member assistance can help narrow it down though. :) Thanks all for your advice along the way. |
The Satori Speaker cable have a more open natural revealing sound than the Oval 9, which sounds much smoother and warmer than the Satori, perhaps a little too smooth to me.
In my system (Almarro 318B amp, Zu Druid Speakers, Zen Wow interconnects), the Oval 9 smoothed the treble including cymbals and snare drum a little too much, yet added an appealing richness to the mids, although it seemed the oval 9 imbued the sound with a little too much richness of warm coloration to the point of blunting the music slightly.
Which is best depends of course on your listening room, other components, and preference in music.
I found the Oval 9 took a little too much sizzle and life out of the music, however, a friend of mine with brighter speakers than my Zu Druids, and a brighter listening room, and more revealing interconnects, prefers the Oval 9 and considers the Satori a little bright (I don't hear that at all in my system and I don't like silver cables or bright sound).
Suffice to say, the Satori are balanced and open and natural without being bright or harsh, convey a lot of information, and are a bit faster and more dynamic than the Oval 9 which color the music a bit on the warm side.
I notice a little more midbass with the Satori, yet the Oval 9 seem to be a little tighter in the bass have more deep sub base.
I am keeping the Satori and selling the oval 9. However, part of me wonders what would have happened if I had put in the more open (than Zen Wow) sounding Zen Matrix Reference interconnect cables (which sound beautiful), while using the Oval 9 to open the sound up a bit.
I am also wondering if I can change the net sound with a slightly warmer interconnect cable and if there is an interconnect cable that is slightly warmer than the nicely balanced Zen Wow to add just a little more richness to the Satori in my system without blunting the sound as much as the Oval 9 did.
So far, the Acoustic Zen Satori are the best speaker cables that I have heard (for my system of course). Yet I am open to suggestions about a different interconnect cable. |
I replaced inexpensive AQ Indigo with AZ Satori (Shotgun) with great results. Satori keeps bass very tight but adds a little to lower midrange that sounded thin with Indigo and class D amp.
It added "body" to instruments and "chestiness" to male voices. I also noticed that voices are silkier/cleaner and percussion instruments are snappier. Soundstaging got a little better. It sounds good in combination with AZ Absolute 0.5m XLR interconnect (silver), but my speakers have soft dome tweeters and are very warm sounding. |
