Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD

Hey Matt, I just discovered your DAC thread... So I'll follow your exciting front-end adventure!

Saluti, Guido

@ Mattnshilp, wow!, This may turn out to be one of the most important imformative threads I have seen in digital in a long time, Keep us posted, cheers.

Hi Matt,

It looks like you have some very nice DACs coming for audition. Maybe you'd consider adding another one in the mix? DSD-S

Best wishes,
Alex Peychev
APL Hi-Fi

Update:
Lampizator Big6 due to arrive 5/27
Rowland Aeris due to arrive 5/29 - I bought one on the 'gon instead of borrowing one. Price was too good to pass up.
PS Audio DirectStream due to ship 6/2
Accustic Arts DAC to arrive 6/4
OverDrive SE will ship 6/2, Hopefully to arrive by end of that week.

So all should be in house by 6/6.

I also have an offer for someone to bring over a Meitner MA1.

I will call Audio Connection Monday.

sorry for the late reply, I'm still on approval mode for my posts so it's easy to get distracted. I tube rolled the L4 lampi but not the big7. I did use the off ramp with the L4 and didn't notice a difference, or at least a 1500$ difference. So i sold it. But now regret it because my system has changed and I'd like to give it another chance with the Big 7 and my low watt and higher efficiency set up.

Because the price was right. I sounds a bit better in the mids than my Krell. It works perfectly in my new Vandy Treo, Ayre system. I'd have to pay a ton more for Ayre, which would work great with my stuff, but it only has USB input and I use three digital inputs already. I LOVE the Ayre when I've heard it in a few different systems. If you heard what the Ayre gear sounded like on Vandy 3a's, you'd probably love what you heard. I think digital is changing rapidly, but I could live with what the Ayre does for years and years I'm sure. I have decided to take the money from selling off my gear and put it into vinyl I think. I have so much great music that needs to be cleaned and then played to be enjoyed.

How many here buy from John? I ran into Mark and Billy when I was there and I wonder if I have run into anyone else? Matt, you'll have to meet us there next time I come down.

I also buy from John. A real gem.

Ctsooner - Thanks for the reply. What's the reason you ended up buying Music Hall, not Ayre? Money?

We are all older Matt, lol. John will be the first to tell you that, lol. I just recently met him and he blew me away with his knowledge. He's in sales, but he gets it. He wants everyone happy with what they buy. I've seen him go out of his way to help people who have never and will never spend a dime in his store. I've been fortunate to get to know him a bit out of work (he's never really stops working) and he's just a good human being. That's why I stump for him on the board I think. I've met so many dirt bags in audio that it gets old. More awesome people though. He will let you tell him what you want and then guide you. I'd laugh if you ended up with AR or some other brand instead, lol.

I just remembered I bought a Rotel amp from John when I was in college. For John's sake, and mine, I refuse to say how long ago that was.... lol

Will call him today. Very curious as to what he has to say...

First official review of the PS Audio Directstream, http://www.audiophilia.com/wp/

Jonson, you really need to get in to listen to the Ayre and Aesthetix. I have listened to the Benchmark 2 vs these other two and there isn't a comparison. The A's are both musical, detailed not etched, non 'digital'. They sound like music. I have heard so many DAC's recently and I went with the Music Hall 25.3 as it has balanced outputs and I use Ayre electronics. I couldn't justify spending more as the MH was very musical with plenty of detail etc... vs most of the DAC's under 3k. I have heard some of the higher end DAC's now and I still love the Ayre, but it only has USB and I need more than just that. I'd die for the Aesthetix gear. Of all the electronics I've heard recently and that includes most top names as I am redoing my system, they are the top two. I like them better than the AR ref stuff too. There is just something about them both that say music and built like a nice looking tank all at the same time, lol. I told John that you would probably be in touch. He said he's excited to speak with you to see what you are looking to do. He knows what goes best together as anyone on here who has worked with him will tell you. Let us know what you get in touch with him. Great luck.

You guys are so funny! You are enabling my pathologies!!!

I'll call him tomorrow.

Matt, I just spoke to John at Audio Connection for you and he would love to help. He has a few, but he will know what will sound best with what you are using in your system. he's great like that, just ask anyone who goes there. His number is (973) 239-1799. Just tell him Peter told you to call or that you are from the board. Great luck. I can't wait to hear what you two come up with.

Has anyone have the opportunity to compare any of the aforementioned units to Benchmark DAC1 or one of its various spin-offs? I have it hooked up now and it really changed my redbook CD listening experience in a profound way. But I am wondering if there is something even beyond this. Thanks! --Jonson Lee

I agree you dont want to overdo it and feel overwhelmed with 7 dac having at the same time. However, I do feel like having several pieces of equipment is the best way to figure which one works in your system or also what they sound like so in case you're after a certain sound later on, you can rely on your impressions.

Guys, John at Audio Connection in Verona NJ has Aethetix and Ayre. He can surely help you out and let you audition in your home I bet. He's on this board and is friends with many of us.

@ Mattnshilp, I enjoy your thread here, Keep me posted, not all of us are able to do what you are doing, getting to audition all these digital products, you have my close attention, cheers.

Hgeifman & Mrmb: I would love to add the Wavelength and Ayre. I might have a part 2 to the shootout if I feel that none of my current offerings get me where I want to be (which I would be surprised with).

My issue is, to be honest, that getting these units into MY house requires that I either find a dealer or friend willing to lend me the unit, pay in full for a timed audition (with full refund minus shipping), or buy the unit outright...

I want to be honest to the dealers and stores that are offering me the loan or paid audition as this is a service that is getting less and less common and these are the dealers and stores that need our support to sustain the customer service we need to enjoy and grow this wonderful hobby. I have 2 manufacturers (PS Audio and Steve at Empirical Audio, who is a hell of a designer and great guy) that are being generous enough to offer me a money back audition period to try out their gear; they need to be commended for this service and I feel obligated to limit my selections to give their equipment the time and consideration it deserves. The same is said of USA Tube Audio of Scottsdale, AZ who has very generously offered me a 15 day trial period for the Accustic Arts DAC. And finally, Thomas of New York Sound and Vision is arranging the Jeff Rowland Aeris audition for me with no financial outlay required; just wow! All of them deserve recognition!

I think the Aesthetix and Wavelength are probably more up my alley then the Ayre would be, but I have heard great things about all 3! If I can find a friend who has one to lend me, I will pursue it.

This thread has exceeded my hopes!!!!

Thanks guys!!

An in store audition is not that helpful to me; I need the unit in my room to directly compare... There are so may factors in good performance; the room is different, amps, pre-amps, cables, AC.....

I think there is a NJ dealer for Aesthetix. I'll call. I dont' want to overdo it on the shootout though. I typically find that comparing more then 3 units at a time is fatiguing and difficult. With the Aesthetix it would be 6. It may need to be over a few days, and time is hard for me to come by.

@ Mattnshilp, Hi, I would find a way to audition, in a store or in your system the Aesthetix Pandora signature before you made a regretfull, decision here, unless you just like dacs, The Romulas signature, all in one box solution with analog volume control is what I will be going with, this unit is hailed by all to better any pre-amp running direct to amps, I hope you can tell us here your impressions of the Aesthetix, cheers.

I second both the Ayre & Wavelength recommendations.

Before I owned my current Wavelength Crimson, I owned the Wavelength Brick Silver Edition. Knowing that Gordon Rankin of Wavelength provided his Asynchronous expertise for the QB-9, I auditioned one against my Brick Silver. The comparison results favored the Brick Silver, but only ever so slightly....

Good luck hunting....I look forward to hearing about your results and your final purchase decision.

Would you consider adding the Ayre QB-9 DSD DAC to your audition list? Please see:

http://www.ayre.com/qb9.htm

Please see the review of the Ayre QB-9 DSD DAC in the Computer Audiophile web site below:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/565-ayre-acoustics-qb-9-dsd-dac-review/

I own the Ayre QB-9 DSD DAC and it is terrific. I am very impressed with the way it sounds. The new DSD version is much better sounding then my previous Ayre CX-7e CD player. The highs are better and so is the bass. Overall, the Ayre QB-9 DSD DAC sounds excellent in my system and I highly recommend you audition it.

Thank you Ketcham.

I find this thread enormously useful and appreciate everyones suggestions.

As an update (although the thread has taken on a life of its own and even though I started the thread, I love were its going and acknowledge that my particular needs are sort of secondary). That said…

I have decided that for right now, I am going to focus on DAC's with USB inputs only. Which eliminates all recognized DACs with spdif input only.

I have either outright purchased, paid in full for a unit to audition for a limited time (money back audition), or arranged to audition/borrow the following DAC's:

Empirical Audio Over Drive SE fully upgraded
PS Audio DirectStream
Lampizator Big 6
Accustic Arts Tube Dac 2 mark 2
Jeff Rowland Aeris

I may be able to borrow a Meitner MA-1

I will keep you posted…

The Aesthetix Pandora signature was the other one people suggested that I was interested in. I just can't find one to audition….

Wow, Huge response to this thread... Awesome! When is the purchase?

Hi Matt,

I am not sure if we discussed Steve Nugent's Overdrive SE with his final drive bypassing a pre-amp. This setup did surpass my tube 12K preamp and did so by a VERY WIDE margin. This is where Steve Nugent's dac really shines. I have since upgraded my pre to something completely different. The Allnic L5000 DHT. Through complete balanced cabling I have custom modded computer server to Overdrive SE fully modded with all Paul Hynes Regs and all outputs > Allnic L5000 DHT > Emprical Final Drive > Allnice A6000 monoblock 300b. My experience, it took a piece that retails for 20K to add sonic quality beyond what was offered by the Overdrive SE > Final Drive combo.

Steve's dac/pre combo did get best in show during the RMAF last year, used with Vapor speakers.

I disagree with the statement that a musically engaging dac is a dac that adds color. Owning an Overdrive myself, I can tell you first hand seeing the inside, Steve has minimal point to point distance between various components...this dac is well designed, densely pack with quality parts.

There may be benefit in a non-upsampling dac. Again I do not have much to compare it do but both my old Meitner Museatex bidat and Empirical dac (both non-upsampling) best my (for sale) EMM LABS Dac2x. However, I never am able to sell the EMM labs because I am not going to lie, to me Steve's dac best it and at a better price.

For anyone looking for a new setup, I would strongly encourage them to consider bypassing a preamp, and focusing on Dac>Final drive combo. For $9750, with Steve Nugent's current special, you would be hard pressed to find something better. I was unable to at 3x that range. Again, this is my experience. I jumped on Steve's deal last fall (same as today) and after following his gear for the last two year, his stuff never goes on sale...there is no middle man and very little markup.

This is the other thing that frustrates me regarding high end audio gear...there is the public price and the trade price. For those who review gear and get it free or below cost and which I personally question their review as unbiased. Then others with connections acquiring a DAC2x for under 3K. Call me envious or jealous...I admit that, I am. Those bstrds (grin). Knowing Paul Hynes, the chassis and parts used in Steve' dac, I estimate his overhead in materials alone approaches 4K.

I posted this in 2012 when I first heard his dac, and it applies today: "Regarding the Overdrive SE stock vs. upgraded Analog Hynes Regulators and CUTF coupling caps: My impression was Steve himself preferred stock over the upgrades. The differences were subtle for rock performances, with stock giving a more stage presence allowing my visceral experience of being at a Bonnie Raitt concert. Personally, for what I listen to, I much preferred the upgrades. To me this sounded like the performer was 5 – 10 feet away with a very real 3d effect. I would move to different aspects of the room and that person is still playing in the same spot. The other detail I would sense is when a musician will pluck a chord flat or not. Very often at musical events that are really impressive, I close my eyes and enjoy the music. Eyes closed, this performance seemed no difference. Also, if you enjoy piano, go with the upgrades…I have never heard piano in any reference system sound like this."

I have a third dac for review that will be of interest and I will compare it to both the EMM and Empirical. Allnic D5000 DHT. Anyone in the Oregon region would be interested, please PM me.

Trialing many high end dacs together is difficult. This is why I initially purchased the EMM, sans audition. No one local carried high end dacs. EMM is a great dac, it is precise, neutral, and detailed. It however for me is not engaging. I believe Steve's dac would challenge many vinyl rigs and envelopes you into the experience.

Now take this DAC and VH audio Plasmatron 3A unit and you will find sonic bliss.

Any opinions on Wavelength Crimson HS USB DAC?
Maybe the non-up sampling transcendental version? Or the super up sampling denominator version?

@ Kana813, LOL!, I was going to post your exact recommendation, I agree!, The Aesthetix Pandora signature is one of the very best, one of audios best kept secrets!

Aesthetix Pandora Signature

Emm Labs Dac2x.. Chord QBD76 HDSD, Berkely Audio Reference Dac

Guf, are you running your Lampy with the off ramp 5? Or direct in with USB and no off ramp?

Are you using stock tubes, or have you rolled them?

I listen to mostly redbook. I've had W4S dac2, with off ramp 5 and short block, and lampizator 4 and now 7. I loved all of them at different times. But to your question. I'm so impressed with the Big7 playing redbook. Very engaging.

The best tubeDAC available IMO is probably the Killer DAC from Australia. Put Siemens CCA grey-plate tubes in it and drive it with an Off-Ramp 5, fully optioned.

As for best SS DAC, the Overdrive SE was compared to several high-end DACs in this review last month:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/empirical-audio-overdrive-se-usb-dacpre

Nothing beat it.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

MSB Analog DAC is below your budget and should be considered a must-audition. Also: Bricasti M1, Meitner and EMM offerings.

The problem with DACs is that the field continues to evolve rapidly and whatever you choose is likely to depreciate precipitously. Compared to most other component categories, it's hard to choose a DAC for the long haul and have it hold up.

If you like Tube Dacs, check out the DHT tube Lampi L7:

This Dac is a serious piece of musical equipment.

http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2014/05/09/axpona-2014-vapor-audio-purity-audio-and-lampizator/comment-page-1/#comment-19338

Ctsooner, I have not heard the new Berkeley. It may not be out yet and not sure I'd want to spend $15,000 for a DAC considering how fast they come and go. Currently using the Berkeley Alpha DAC2 but thinking of checking out the Aesthetix because I like tubes.

I threw the new Berkeley DAC into the ring as something to consider as the OP was asking for "absolute top tier" DAC's and the Berkeley Alpha DAC Reference will probably qualify. Sure would like to give it a listen.

Rja, have you heard the Berkeley yet? I still find it difficult to spend more than the Ayre for what you get. It's only drawback is that it's only USB and for many they need more inputs, but the sound is freaking awesome. I've heard it on Vandy 5, Quattro, 3ASigs at Audio Connection and it just sounded right for digital. Gives you DSD too which is nice. For me, I just haven't heard any of the ultra expensive DAC's sound more musical than the Ayre stuff and if you ask anyone who has heard the Ayre, they'd probably tell you similar. JMHO

Another DAC to ponder is the new Berkeley although I'm not sure it's available yet.

Mattnshilp.. Let us know how you make out..

Not yet. But I need to. That room needs SO much work and I have no time. Work and kids.....

I think it'll help getting moved out and the rack back. Have you played with the toe in? It's nice that the head can be rotated.

I can push the rack back and pull the speakers out 8-10". I will try that tomorrow.

Steve N. - we have spoken. I am awaiting your return from the show for us to proceed to audition. You have my email already.

I have heard suggestions of Audio Note, Lampizator, Ypsilon and Concert Fidelity enough to take note. I have heard Accustic Arts Tube DAC 2 mk II less then I expected as it also has a very good reputation for tubed DAC's.

Hi Mattnshilp.. a couple of thoughts.. have you played with the toe in of the "head" on the Vienna's?

Also I'm not sure if you use the door behind the rack but if you don't I'd suggest moving the rack back as much is as feasible, and then if you can pull the speakers out even 8-10" I think it'l really help with soundstage depth..

Mattnshilp - You will not need an external USB converter with the Overdrive SE:

http://www.audiostream.com/content/empirical-audio-overdrive-se-usb-dacpre

No resampling. Beats all comers for accuracy and analog sound.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Typo above, LampizatOr Level 7...

Ypsilon, Audio Note, Concert Fidelity - all require a USB to spdif converter.
No issue with that, but $$$ for converter and cables.

I prefer to try something with a USB input first....

Listening Room:
19'x14.5'
Speakers are centered on the long wall, about 8.5' apart and 18" from front wall to the back of the speakers. I am seated 8.5-9' from the front of the speakers (essentially an equilateral triangle) and the rear wall is 3' behind my head.

Hey Mattnshilp, Cars and watches are good! Any distance more you can get off the back wall would help.. How far apart are the speakers and how far do you sit from them?

If you're gonna be in that room for awhile I'd certainly spend the $300. or so for dedicated AC lines that's a cheap tweak.. that has zero WAF effect..

I'm lucky my son is away at college so room isn't an issue, the $45K year that it costs, that is an issue! I sure could buy a lot of wine, watches and HiFi with that cash :-)

Erikminer -
It's not my house, it's our house and she works just as hard as I do, if not harder. So that thought process doesn't apply in my house. I have a ton of space in the house, but the dedicated room is neither in the budget right now, nor is their space until the kids are older and I repurpose part of the basement to my needs. That, and a wine cellar. ;)

I am not unhappy with my current scenario, and the system sounds f'in amazing already! I just want to fine tune my gear and then slowly make the room as acoustically friendly as I can. Eventually, I want to have someone come in and do a master setup. The side glass doors now have soft transparent drapes on them and the floor has a good size area rug. All it still needs is window treatments and something I can put on the center glass door. I can probably get the speakers out another 6-10 inches without issue.

I'm doing my best. She lets me buy whatever equipment I want, watches and cars. So I'm certainly not suffering….