1 speaker is downstairs, the other is still in the garage. My 14 year old helped me get one down but he had to leave for a school function. I'm hoping he can help me get the other down tonight. I should have everything set up by Saturday. Fingers crossed.
Absolute top tier DAC for standard res Redbook CD
Hi All.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
Putting together a reference level system.
My Source is predominantly standard 16/44 played from a MacMini using iTunes and Amarra. Some of my music is purchased from iTunes and the rest is ripped from standard CD's.
For my tastes in music, my high def catalogues are still limited; so Redbook 16/44 will be my primary source for quite some time.
I'm not spending DCS or MSB money. But $15-20k retail is not out of the question.
Upsampling vs non-upsampling?
USB input vs SPDIF?
All opinions welcome.
And I know I need to hear them, but getting these ultra $$$ DAC's into your house for an audition ain't easy.
Looking for musical, emotional, engaging, accurate , with great dimension. Not looking for analytical and sterile.
4,489 responses Add your response
Hi Audiolabyrinth, I am delighted that the big JBLs have found themselves cozy homes in space-challenged Japanese abodes. Regretably, it appears however that in spite of your better judgmet, Matt feels no compunction deviating from Nipponic space utilization standards. His abode and preferences being unapologetically his own only, he appears to have declined to plunge the darling BBMs (Big Behamoth Speakers) down the stairs to his moderately sized musical cave. To change his mind will require a formal petition.... 100K signatures minimum... Your direct bank deposit to his account to cover all costs.... And a further compensation in kind or cash arbitrated by a federal judge to cover any incidentals: medical, legal, and psychological counseling, and... underground escavations to build Structural extensions of his basement into the extant hillside to optimize the listening space for the oversized creatures. G. Regards, G. |
Matt, What really interests me is how your high powered amplifiers interact with these speakers. Both companies have excellent reputations. Trenner Friedl and Dynaudio have very different design approaches/philosophy and construction/Xovers/drivers etc. One will be a better synergistic fit with "your" amplifier, even though both speakers individually are considered to be terrific. I'm looking forward to your in house audition. Thanks for sharing these experiences. Charles, |
Hi Ray. You pour your cold water and add ice. But throw in a few strawberries, some rum and use a blender; tastes better that way. :) My digressions know no boundaries. I have taken this fun thread on a wild ride thrugh Uber Speaker Land and I think we have all come out better for it. Or at least refreshed and ready to attack the DAC with renewed fervor. With that said, I apologize to Ray to report to those interested that the Isis arrived today. I now need to get them downstairs and hook them up and listen. They are well broken in from what I understand and should sound Bizang within a day or so of hook up. I'm really looking forward to this! I'm a little nervous since I own the Consequences and am worried that I might like the Isis better and will need to move the Consequence. But the Consequence has proven a serious state of the art contender and is tough competition for any newcomer. We shall see. I'm burning the Consequences in now and plan on getting 500-1000 hours on them as quick as I can. Running them 24/7. I am happy to report to Ray and the other DAC loving followers that I have confirmed an Emm Labs DAC2X inbound next Friday as well as the Allnic DHT DAC around the same time (along with an Antipodes DX) and I think I have secured an audition the an MSB DAC V and a Lampy Baby 7. So lots coming up to report. I'm also auditioning an Ethernet/USB audiophile grade distribution hub that looks very interesting. I don't know if I can report who makes it yet as the manufacturer US rep is sending it to me to evaluate for them. But I'll check and report as things happen. |
AudioLabyrinth, Matt is not disputing your assertion about the JBLs quality/musicality/desirability.... He heard them and likes them fine... The speakers are too large for his room. See the following fragment from his post on the subject: "The JBL DD-67000 are dual 15" drivers and are 38" wide; way too big for my small room. I have heard them and they are great, but not a match for my needs." G. |
09-14-15: Abedirov From what I understand, Lucas is heavily backordered on GGs and 211 amps. Have you heard the L7? |
Hi Bill. I am very familiar with Faber. The Strads are sensational and the Amati Futura is as well. Their new Lilium is stunning. The Strads and Futura are both rear ported and won't work in my room. And i spoke at length with the guys at Faber about the Lilium and the consensus was that with the top firing woofer and unique poring system it would be a hit or miss in my size room. No one was willing to put them in my room to try, so I moved on.... Abedirov - I would be happy to try it but I'm not willing to buy one to do so. The guys at Lampy have offered me a Baby 7 to try, and I look forward to that. I'll post if that happens. |
Matt - I know there's quite a list of speakers you've tried and I may have missed your mention of them, but have you considered any Sonus faber speakers? I just heard their Guarneri Evolution monitors and was blown away by them. While there are other speakers that are more impressive upon initial listening, I haven't heard any that are as seductively smooth in the mids along with such sweet highs. Of course depending upon your musical preferences they may or may not hit your sweet spot, but they do it for me and thought you might want to audition them. Their larger models like the Amati Futura and above are more full range designs. I also heard their lower priced Olympica line, and while they're very polite and easy to listen to I found them lacking the 'magic' that their upper models have in spades. Good listening! |
Matt, are you planning to audition Lampizator Golden Gate? I am asking as I plan to upgrade my Lampi L4 and GG is one of my top choices. Other candidates are Bricasti, TotalDac and Rockna. Sadly, MSB Analog is no longer on the list. I have been listening to MSB Analog + Powe Base for the last 3 weeks and comparing it to my Lampi L4. No contest, Lampi is better on all fronts, especially with DSD. It's a pity, I've had really high hopes for MSB. Other MSB models may be better, but they are out of my price range. I would love to try ODSE, but not sure if I can get one in Moscow, where I am based. Any other recommendations? Thanks |
Guido - excellent point. I can't imagine these speakers have many hours on them at all. They are essentially brand new. Thank you for reminding me of my core processes. I will immediately start burning them in, I'll bet that's it. Audiolabyrinth - The T&F are made in Austria, Dynaudio are Danish and Marten are Swedish. Those are my 3 front runners right now. The JBL DD-67000 are dual 15" drivers and are 38" wide; way too big for my small room. I have heard them and they are great, but not a match for my needs. Bill_K - I measured the Lawrence Audio Double Bass while I had them on loan and they measured practically flat as a line in my room. They were technically exceptional, and completely uninvolving. I was fascinated by the many peaks and valleys of the Coltrane Tenor and the magic they created. My new Consequence Ultimates measure even worse then the Tenors did, but the proof and truth is in the ear of the beholder, not the measurements.... I know John Atkinson disagrees... If all goes well, I will shortly be comparing the Emm Labs DAC 2X with the Aesthetix Romulus Sig, and my ODSE. Keep your fingers crossed. |
09-13-15: Audiolabyrinth He should buy whatever sounds like music. Specs be damned. Some speakers I have heard measure ruler flat but sound like death.... |
Matt, how many hours of break-in do the Consequence Ultimate have on them? Shoutiness could be a temporary artifact of incomplete breakin, as much as it might be caused by non optimal placement. In the former case, patience should do the trick. If the latter, a call to your dealer might be in order for suggestions, recommendations, or an at home consultation session. G. |
09-13-15: Mattnshilp That sounds like trouble. Isis to the rescue.... |
Trenner & Friedl : Isis. I heard the Avalon Isis in a private home of a dealer who has them set up very well, and they are too big for my room and not to my taste. The Consequence Ultimate are pushing many of my buttons. They have a bit of a shout to them, which they did not have at all either time I heard them in the store. So I'm trying to figure out where it's coming from. I'm adjusting treatments and moving the speakers about to adjust them. The Isis will be here Wednesday. I'll keep everyone posted. |
ODSE vs. Bricasti M1 - wow a post that actually resembles the thread title! I'm going to hold opinions about the new Dynaudio Consequence Ultimate speakers for now, other then to say they are truly statement level and are utterly unforgiving to anything upstream that can't deliver the goods.. "Just the facts." Nothing more, nothing less. Oh, and to say that they are forcing me to re-evaluate and manipulate my room treatments; and I have completely and utterly eliminated the balcony affect with careful placement but I have not yet optimized them. I spent several hours with the Bricasti M1 running with the Total DAC usb filter/cable and then put the ODSE back in and kept the Total DAC USB in to keep things even. And then I compared the Total DAC filter/cable to my current Wireworld Platinum Starligh USB with Empirical Audio Block Filter on my familiar ODSE to see if I could hear any differences. The Bricasti M1 is a wonderful DAC with many adjustments and settings to fine tune the sound to your liking, reminiscent of the multitude of setting on my Esoteric CD/DAC. I settled in on one setting, that was what the dealer had suggested as well, after trying all the settings out. I don't remember the name but I'll check and post it. To me it gave me the best of all worlds and allowed the M1 to catwalk and keep me most engaged. What I found most interesting was how different it sounded with difference source material. Truly a chameleon. It's ability to essentially shape shift from Liszt to Bob Dillon and give what each required, or demanded, was most impressive. This is a DAC that can do it all without struggling. Punch, drive, subtly, refinement, with a slightly forward feel and a wide but not expansive soundstage. Not meticulously accurate or HiFi, just correct. I found the tone and texture proper but missed that last element of complexity and true layer that my ODSE and the Rowland Aeris excel at. The M1 was wonderful at extracting the pace and rhythm of the track and bringing you along for the ride while rarely if ever thinking about what it was doing right or wrong. I found it lacking, subtly, at the extremes. M1 out, ODSE back in. Snap! There was my layering, my complexity, my ability to hear deeper into the music and the venue. The soundstage opened up significantly, imaging clarified with a finer sense of place and space and everything spread apart front to back with feet between front and backstage. Extremes were, well, extreme. The most significant difference was speed. The ODSE is lightning fast. I know I've become a broken record, but this little ODSE is a massive achievement and remains in my rack as another DAC has come and gone. I am hoping to borrow the Aesthetix Romulus Signature to hear it and I may be able to get my hands on the new top tier Meitner Emm Labs DAC as well. I'll let you know if I can. I'm also dying to hear an MSB DAC in my system. The Total DAC USB/filter cable vs my Starlight Platinum with Short Block..... Really subtle differences. Both are excellent. I would say the Total DAC is a hair softer and warmer while the Starlight/Short Block a bit less so. Not huge; not even big. Not enough to justify a purchase. I have 3 different speaker wire in my room currently, and all 3 offered way more significant changes in voicing and performance then did the usb cable swap. Hope that was worth waiting for. Sorry to those M1 lovers. It's an amazing DAC. But to my ears, in my system the ODSE was more to my taste. I will post about the speakers in another few days. They need more fine tuning, room adjustment and cable swaps. And the Isis will arrive next Wednesday, so there's still that..... :) |
My stereo can't make cups float.... But I wish it could. That's SO cool!!!! Lol. I'm away until Monday. Kids start school Tuesday and the schedule returns to a more normal insanity then the transition from summer to school time. Wednesday and Friday morning will be dog eared for stereo play. I can't wait !!! |
09-02-15: Mattnshilp You mean like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-yim9q3_oI I figured that was your sonic frame of reference as a former car audio guy (+/- the NJ effect). If that's what you are working with now, you are a baller indeed....we bow down.... |
I have been spending every moment of my time working and getting my backyard project done. I took 15 min to listen and got called by my wife upstairs. Sigh. There is an occasional Balcony affect. I don't know why it's not dramatic because it makes sense that it should be. The balcony affect is 75% psychological because your brain just tells you it should be that way. But it's occasional; not frequent. It's either there or it's not there; it's musical piece dependent and very infrequent. I have not played at all with placement and I think the Balcony affect is very placement dependent and I can make it disappear with meticulous placement. When I heard it at the store, it had absolutely no balcony affect at any time; not on any track at all. Which tells me it's placement dependent. The low frequency extension is taught and limitless. Like nothing I have ever heard. I am going away for 4 days. When I get back I am going to measure the room to see how low my room actually goes. My length from bottom front corner to top rear corner is about 27'. But that physics isn't 100% accurate because there are other factors at play that help to augment those lower frequencies. The Double Bass measured flat in my room 25hz to 20kHz. I'll report on that when I measure it. |
In 2009, Stereophile thought the driver config produced a "balcony" perspective: http://www.stereophile.com/rmaf2009/dynaudios_consequence/index.html#FpzIbYFhsM4uLmtQ.97 The real question for Matt is given the low frequency extension and size of the speaker and the size of his room, how will the bass energy manifest? The full wavelength of 20Hz, for example, is 56.5 ft. |
Branislav - you might think it would but it doesn't. That was Dynaudio's top of the line model, and the inverted driver configuration is an integral part of the design. Instead of time aligning the drivers by positioning them in a physically stepped array like some others do, they accounted for the additional delay as the driver frequency increases by being further away from those drivers as their offset angle increases. Of course they also took the rolloff of the drivers into account as you get off axis. All in all, an ingenious design that is a true classic! |