A New Ground -- Benefits of introducing the Synergistic Research Active Ground Block SE
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folkfreak & davidpritchard: I'm currently using 2 SR Ground blocks with HD Cables. Pretty happy with the results. I've owned the Entreq Silver Tellus and have also heard elaborate Entreq setups in other really good systems. I prefer the SR Ground Blocks because they take much less space and offer similar results. I'm considering an upgrade to the Active Ground Block SE. How much better is it than the original Ground Block? |
@mtseymour im afraid I did not upgrade from the original grounding block to the active, I just started with the active so cannot comment on the benefit. With the normal 30 day trial I’d give it a go. I did find that getting the grounding block up on roller ball based supports helped. I also have had good results from grounding cables that Mike at Verastarr made for me that are much cheaper than the SR ones but give great results |
Did Verrastarr make the cables from Ground Block to RCA or XLR? How about from Ground Block to Atmosphere interconnects? SR's website has a photo of HD cables from the Ground Block to Atmosphere interconnects. However, there's no info about these cables (presumably set of 2 per interconnect). Does anyone have experience with this application? It's been worthwhile for me to upgrade to the HD Cables for components and I wonder about the interconnects. |
@mtseymour all of my connections, with the exception of the bare silver connections to my stands, are SR HD links. For the Atmosphere and my two FEQs SR make a cable terminated with the larger bananas. I also needed longer runs to the FEQs for which SR sell extender cables terminated in female small bananas. Did grounding the Atmosphere and FEQs make a difference? Yes but one of the smaller ones, certainly less than getting the grounding right on the FEQs without the ground block ( ie plugging them both into the same dedicated outlets) I do not have any Atmosphere interconnects so cannot speak to what results you might get with them. all my interconnects are AQ WEL Signature |
I have the original SR grounding blocks. I made my own links using solid hi-grade 9999 silver wire. The SR’s HD links are way too expensive for a thin piece of wire. From the wall plug to the grounding block I am using a 12 gauge unshielded 9999 solid wire. Also, you can buy banana adapters to convert a regular size banana (4mm) to 2mm to fit into the SR grounding blocks. With the standard size banana’s you get a much more secure connection. ozzy |
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The active ground block has active components inside as well as a ground connection. By the way the general rule with active SR components is to never disconnect them if at all possible. Once disconnected and reconnected the fields in the cables to which they are connected take 48-72 hours to fully reform. The same is true for AQ DBS as well. So be very careful if you are making these quick comparisons. Disconnecting a ground lead at the component end is much less deleterious and a better way of doing a quick check on the impact of this tweak |
Jim, I am using an ordinary AC plug with just the ground wire connected. Then that wire is connected with a 4mm banana to the SR grounding block. There are no special features with the grounding block just copper with all the grounding leads plugged into it. I have just about everything including video components connected to the block. It will accept 18 leads. Imagine buying all of those leads from SR at about $450 each... gulp! Too me, its a very useful and sonic addition. I think I got it for about $300 used. I have never tried the Active SR ground block it just seems a little too pricey for me. ozzy |
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folkfreak, Thanks for the response. I might be wrong but I think the "active components inside" the box are mostly responsible for the reason why the thing improves the SQ of an audio system, not the AC mains safety equipment ground. I have to wonder if the ground bar on the top of the unit is connected directly to the AC mains wall outlet safety equipment ground. Just a gut feeling it is not. Jim |
@jea48 i suspect you may be misunderstand how these systems work. They have no effect on nor relation to the safety ground. As @ozzy has observed even passive ground solutions give results, consider for example the Entreq units which have no connection to the AC safety ground at all but still produce the same type of results. The active circuitry in the SR block I have adds to the effect but you can get the main part of it by using a passive device. These devices will not address humm or other AC ground issues and have a completely separate use. |
ozzy ozzy, Thanks for the reply. So your grounding block does not have the "active components inside"? Does the safety equipment ground connect directly to the ground bar on the block? It appears I need to rethink my understanding of the safety equipment ground. Al, (almarg), If you are following this thread, why is the safety equipment ground having any influence on the SQ of the audio system when connected to the grounding block? Especially if it is solidly connected to the ground bar of the block. If that is the case all the signal grounds of the audio equipment is then connected directly to the chassis of cord and plug connected equipment that uses the safety equipment ground. Jim |
folkfreak OP . ozzy @ folkfreak, It sure sounds to me like the safety equipment ground is at play. What am I missing? . ozzyOnly the safety equipment ground wire is connected to the grounding block. Jim |
@jea48 well yes, the "safety ground" is used as a common point of reference for all the connected components, but you could just as well use a box of dirt a la Entreq or the or the special mix Verastarr are working on (http://www.monoandstereo.com/2017/10/new-verastarr-ground-box.html) Using the term "safety ground" while technically correct to me implies that this has something to do with electrical safety where in reality all we are using the ground for is as a common reference point -- not a new idea as Naim devotees know well (http://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/how-to-achieve-star-earthing) |
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mtseymour, I bought the wire and the adapters on EBay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/4pcs-Safety-Gold-2mm-Banana-Plug-Male-to-4mm-Banana-Jack-Female-Probe-Adapt... ozzy |
I've built several DIY silver ground cables using the 2mm connectors. Replacing the stock ground cables for my Atmosphere interconnects and speaker cables had minimal impact. However, it was worthwhile to add additional cables to my DAC and amps. For example, my PS Audio BHK 250 had the SR HD ground cable and my DIY silver cable connected to the RCA inputs. The extra cable reinforced the benefits of grounding. |
Quick update on this thread to present a solution to ground for the front end of your phono system. As noted in prior comments on this thread grounding the first stage in your phono chain (be it the arm, table, step up or phono stage if no step up used) to the SR Block made the sound worse -- more congested and constrained. Convinced that their might still be benefit in giving the cartridge, tonearms and deck its own dedicated ground I was intrigued to see the Akiko "Phono Booster" -- which is in effect a miniature grounding block dedicated for phono stages https://www.akikoaudio.com/en/akiko-audio/akiko-audio-audio-accessories/549-akiko-audio-phono-booste... I took a chance on this (21 day money back from Jaguar Audio) and have been very pleased with the results. I have it connected to my step up (the phono stage itself is now grounded to the SR Block) and the effect is very worthwhile. Most noticeable is increased separation between instruments -- in loud orchestral passages each instrument has its own bubble of air around it and you can keep track of more as the volume and complexity increases. The down side in this is that it can at first listen seem a bit thinned out and bass shy but I believe this is in fact the removal of a coloration. The effect is very LP dependent and in every case with the Akiko in I can hear more information -- but in some cases the prior coloration was definitely euphonic. One nit I have is that the wire is rather stiff and flops under its own weight (which is an issue as grounding cables need to be carefully dressed and kept away from other cables) and that the spade is a small one -- my step up ground lug is the larger size, but I was able to show it in. I think I'll explore having Mike at Verastarr make me up a replacement cable and will report back on that |
Hello all, Maybe a bit late to the party but thought I'd chime in...many thanks to folkfreak as your suggestion to run the Active Block SE into the spur that's being used to run all my front end gear thru the PowerCell 12....I, like 68pete originally powered it via a SR QLS6 linestrip and the results were terrible...actually reduced the sound stage and thinned it out which, according to other users I know was exactly the opposite I was expecting...after reading folkfreaks post rearranged some MPC's and was able to free up the additional socket on the same duplex as my front end gear.....the results were shocking!!! I couldn't be more pleased. My efforts the last 6 months to find more detail thru Symposium Acoustic platforms and rollerblock 2's got me the soundstage, detail and layering I was looking for but seemed to have lost some body and weight which made the sound less musical IMO....the Active Grounding Block brought back the body and weight in spades! Can the HD cables actually improve this more??? If so sign me up! These forums once again proved to be a terrific source of information and guidance. Thanks P |
Just wanted to post some musings in additional impacts of getting grounding right with unepexected benefits from the oddest of places. While I’m still getting great results from the SR active blocks as my primary ground solution I have started to add additional Taiko ground blocks (primarily the D3 model, new and currently not listed on their web site). The two areas where adding a dedicated ground has had the most impact are unexpectedly a) the power supply to my Herzan isolation for the turntable and b) the Mutec 10MHz Reference clock for my DCS stack. In both cases adding a dedicated ground substantially clarified instrumental and vocal lines placing players so much more securely in space and bringing out differences between players and singers that had previously been masked. It seems that in both analog and digital replay the effect of micro level timing disruptions whether from the clock (in the digital case) or acoustic interference (in the analog) has a profound effect in messing up tiny timing cues that are basic to creating the impression of a real sound space. Once again an example of how as you optimize your system the smallest details take on ever more importance, quite the opposite of the diminishing returns principle! |
Atmosphere said: I did a survey of a number of grounding systems by interviewing the owners and having them do a few tests (as best as I can make out, these were similar to the SR, but none of them were SR units).As usual Ralph, you make utterly and completely perfect sense. The very notion that equipment ground needs to be implement by some convoluted “active” grounding hokum implicates SR as being a purveyor of fallacious merchandise, and worse, the promulgator of carelessness towards electrical standards and safety. The simple test that everyone should conduct for themselves is this: measure the AC voltage between the chassis of each AC powered component and the supply receptacle ground. For equipment that is grounded by a grounded power cord, this reading should be zero. For non-grounded equipment with a non-polarized plug, the reading should be nil with the plug oriented one way - in such equipment, consider replacing the cord set with one with a polarized plug. For non-grounded equipment with a polarized plug, the above voltage reading should be nil. In some cases, it is worth upgrading to a grounded power cord, and connecting the ground to the chassis - only if it is isolated from signal ground. |
@sleepwalker close reading of this thread will have identified instances where grounding of passive equipment (ie stands) and ones not in any way in the signal chain ( ie the Herzan) bring clear and obvious benefits. The claim that this is all down to poor design of active electronics while possible in the limited instances in which it directly applies is by no means the end of the story. Secondly I suggest you do a little bit more research to understand the difference between the grounds we are discussing here and the safety ground ... the Taiko devices, as with many other similar ones, are purely passive and in no way connected to the mains ground |
JEA48 asked Atmasphere: Would you please expand..... What is the reference for the arm ground wire connection to the ground terminal/lug on the phono preamp chassis? Ralph, forgive me for barging into this... the arm ground wire on a turntable is meant to be chassis ground, which must be maintained to the phono stage chassis, and remain isolated from signal ground, which is usually DC ground in transformerless signal paths. |
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@folkfreak why do you endorse products that are obviously overstating their technical merits? Why avoid debate and discussion on the very topic that you posted? The claims made by akiko audio regarding their so-called “phono booster” are nonsensical. There can be no benefit to connecting an empty box “without using electrical components or active power filtering”with a single piece of “flexible black wire to the phono stage chassis ground. Yet, for $332, this thing purports:
Note that this device as admitted by the manufacturer, is just an aluminium box with a single bananna jack, filled with black resin potting. Nothing is inside the resin. It does not connect to signal ground at any point, and therefore is not able to affect it. It cannot affect the so-claimed “contaminated electricity”, as it does not intercept the path of electrical current powering any part of the sound system. This thing does nothing but reduce your disposable income by $332. I want to openly discuss how this thing can add value. What means of empirical research and measurements did you use to arrive at your conclusions? Running away from the discussion only raises suspicions about the technical validity of these products. |
@sleepwalker65 I’m more than happy to welcome you to come and listen to my system here in Portland. You’ll not only hear the effect of the various tweaks but also how such adjustments as changing where physically they are located has direct and repeatable impact on how they sound. Frankly I have no interest in nor pay any attention to the marketing explanations for any of these, I simply try them out and work out if and how best to use them. My intent in initiating this thread was to encourage others to do the same, that is after all the point of this board and of this hobby. |
So I just got an Active Ground Block SE a week ago, and I’m experimenting with power cables. I did notice a sound change after I grounded all of my components and possible cables, but I felt that I couldn’t get the right sound with the atmosphere power cable that came with the ground box. With the gold bullet, I felt that it was too warm and obscured some of the higher frequencies, the silver bullet was too lean and fast, and having no bullet made the sound too flat. I switched over to a DH Labs Corona AC cable into the ground block and all was solved. Has anyone else had a similar issue with not liking the power cable that the ground block comes with? Kind of a bummer since this was one of the reasons for the higher cost. |
That’s an interesting observation. It actually jibes with my experience with the same cable. I purchased that model recently intending to use it on the power supply for my Herzan isolation table but I found it sucked the life right out of the system (crazy I know that this could be from an isolation component). I soon dropped that and went back to a more basic cable that worked much better. Not what I expect from a $1.5k power cord I’ve never tried changing the cables that came with my ground boxes but maybe I should and see what effect it has so thanks for suggesting that |
As well as the power cord there's also an "Active EM Cell" in the SE model -- I've never done a head to head comparison so have no perspective as to the incremental benefits of the added cost. My recommendation would be to get a start on grounding with a model that suits your budget and spend the extra on better ground wires rather than the unit itself -- the benefits of using the SR HD cords (or having Mike Powell at Verastarr make up cables for you) is substantial over the (frankly) useless basic cords and the money you spend on these will pay back if/when you upgrade the ground block itself |
I will share my experience of comparison. I really appreciate SR Active Ground Block SE. But in comparison the cables got the best sound in combination: Synergistic Research High-Def Grounding Block Cable - for source;VH Audio UniCrystalTM OCC SILVER 24AWG - for DAC’s; Duelund 1.0 - for SR Base and Amp’s |
The Active Ground Block SE has an Active Electromagnetic Cell similar to what is found in our PowerCell line conditioners, the non SE version does not. This (the Active EM Cell) filters high frequency noise out of ground which is significant. One of the subjective effects is a boost in low frequencies where your system sounds more powerful and controlled in the lower registers. As to HD Ground Cables it depends on what else you've got in your system. In an otherwise all SR loom of cables they are far better than the VH Audio and Veristar cables which sound muddy and lower resolution in direct comparison. If you've got cable stew who knows, that's like putting four different rims and tires from different manufactures on the same Ferrari. The same goes for the power cord, in a full loom of SR cables the supplied power cord will sound best. Also NEVER plug an Active Ground Block into anything but the wall. Repeat NEVER EVER plug the Active Ground Bock into anything but the wall. Do NOT plug it into a line conditioner or anything but a wall outlet otherwise you will introduce impedance and crosstalk contamination and this seriously diminishes sound quality. Ted Denney- Lead Designer / Synergistic Research. |
Also NEVER plug an Active Ground Block into anything but the wall. Repeat NEVER EVER plug the Active Ground Bock into anything but the wall. Do NOT plug it into a line conditioner or anything but a wall outlet otherwise you will introduce impedance and crosstalk contamination and this seriously diminishes sound quality. Thank you, Ted. I was looking for this answer. I have a duplex socket on the wall where one is plugged to a conditioner, and the other socket is not used. Can the AGB SE be plugged into the unused socket? |
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