Congratulations, Rugby1! I have the Silverbacks in my reference system, and although I do not find them to sound all that similar to my Sonus Faber Guarneri Mementos (which is THE ONLY REASON I did not suggest them in my previous reply to your post), they are superbly musical and a perfect match for tube and class A SS amps. Enjoy!! |
i have purchased the devore silverbacks - and should receive them next week , thanks to everyone for there input. |
The new Cremona M is very easy to drive with 70 tube watts. It has a more refined top-end compared to the old Cremona. Much better balanced and neutral compared to old model. |
Do you already have a 70 watt tube amp that you want to continue to use? If so, what is it? If not, if you like the Cremona M, why not look for an appropriate tube amp for them? It is my understanding that the new Cremona are a lot easier to drive than the old ones. I have the original Cremona, but drive them with a tube pre and a SS amp. Have you considered this type of mix? |
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I have been following this thread with interest. One of my systems has a pair of Fidelio Encores. I have heard these speakers sound terrific in 2 rooms in our home and with amplifiers ranging in power from 25 wpc pure class A up to 200 wpc. I am listening to them right now in their "final" location, seamlessly integrated with a REL B-2 and I am one happy camper.
A suggestion to the OP/others. I recently heard the new Naim Ovator and was extremely impressed, shocked actuall. For $10K new they appear to be hard to beat. Incredible imaging and realism. Do not remember any specifics about their impedance, etc, but they are far easier to drive than my Fidelio Encores. Superb sound with both tubes and SS. Definitely worth a listen IMHO. |
Hi Marty. Yes, us common folk must participate in those damn trade offs. My room at the time was 24 X 14 w/ 8 ft. ceilings. Interesting it was an OTL amp that didn't work for you. It was my Tenor 75WI that didn't quite do it for me. A real shame, as both the Tenor and the PE's are both so good, just not paired together. Your point that the FE's would not have the bottom octave is a good one. That is why I bought the Parsifal's, after having heard the Fidelio's. At that time, I believe the Fidelio I heard was not the Encore though. Bottom line is I also believe the OP should be fine w/ 70 healthy watts. I would like to make one last point. I will say the Parsifal's may benefit from the extra power. My brief audition w/ that ATM-2 was a rewarding experience. Ultimately, I chose to keep my 250 watt CJ 8A's. The other map I had w/ the PE's was an Accuphase A50v. That amp really grabbed hold of those 4 Ohm woofers. I still sold the Accuphase to stick w/ tubes, but it's capabilities were obvious. Tight, detailed bass control.
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Having said all that - the Fidelio Encore might well be a better call for the OP's needs. I really only referenced the P/E because it's the model I own - and know best. I've briefly heard the F/E at a local dealer and agree that it shares the family sound that I was recommending to the OP. It's cheaper, as well.
However, the P/E has diminished in-room output below 40hz (as measured in my room), while the loudspeaker that the OP references (SF Cremona) gets closer to 30hz in the same space. Not a big deal for most music, but.....
While I've never measured the F/E in my room (never had a pair in there), I'd suspect that it trades away even more deep bass response. Therefore I'd guess that it moves a bit further away from "sounding like" the Cremona.
Ah,...trade-offs. Isn't it always that way.
Marty |
Fjn,
As I noted, the P/Es aren't a super easy load.
However, I've successfully run the P/Es with 55wpc Cary 805 SET amps for over 10 years. In fact, the P/Es were demo'd at the dealer (Sound by Singer in NYC) with these amps. Now, this is a pricey SET amp, but an SET, nonetheless, and, as such, not exactly insensitive to the load they face. I've also had no issue running the P/Es with PrimaLuna 7 tube amps, similarly rated. Rooms sizes (there have been several over the years) have ranged up to the moderately large (14x23x17' cathedral ceiling at the largest). I listen fairly loud at times - and my taste runs to some fairly full range program material.
Bottom line, I agree that the P/E is a modestly tough load - it ate up the 30wpc Atmasphere S-30 and the smaller Cary 300B monos. However, it will work well with most 70wpc tube amps, in most rooms, with most material at most listening levels - at least IME. |
The PE's IMHO are a fairly tough load. I think they are a great speaker, but surely not an 8ohm load. An amp that drove them well for me was an Air Tight ATM-2 at 75-80 watts.
Of course the ATM-2 w/ Tamura Transformers are not your average 80 watt tube amp. The Fidelio Encore, while not as full range, is an easier load that will work w/ 60-70 watts.
Not saying the Parsifal cannot, but it will be more of an individual opinion, w/ things like room size and type of music perhaps coming in to play. Again, all this IMHO. |
You could also look at Verity (Parsifal Encore, in my case) which is a little warmer and less extended than the Cremona, but overall barks up a similar tree. Not quite the same, but in the same neighborhood. The Parsifal Encore isn't a super easy load, but most 70wpc tube amps should work well.
I currently both own Parsifal Encores and Cremonas so my opinion is based on long experience with both speakers in my own home. Doesn't mean you'll agree with my assessment, but -if you like the Cremonas - I suspect that you'd be pretty happy with the choice.
Marty |
Thank you to everyone for there input. |
I'm using the Harbeth M-40.1's with a 75WPC integrated. They sell for $12K retail or $8K used. Harbeth's are known for being warm, smooth and musical, much like Sonus Faber. There's a like-new pair listed right now for $7,800. |
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The new cremonas i was comparing to. i was looking at a impedence that really doesn t dip that much that works with a 50 to 75 watt tube amp in the 10 to 15 k range. |
More importantly, which Sonus Faber?
The old SF designs were MUCH, MUCH warmer than the recent desings. I own the old Minuettos and the more modern Cremonas. The former are examples of the old SF sound (rolled off at the extremes with a mid-bass hump). The latter are a more nuetral, extended, modern sounding high end speaker and are representative of what I've heard from all the recent SF designs I've had the chance to check out - specifically including the stand mounted monitors.
So you've got to specify which one prefer before anyone can make an informed recommendation for you.
Marty |
We need more information. What price range? What type of music? I am using a Pathos Classic One (integrated 70 watts with tube pre) on SF Conterto and the sound is really intoxicating. If you want to drive Stradivari, that is a different story. But 70 watts of tube can drive lots of SF apeakers. If you want SF, 70 watts may be fine, depending on what level of speaker and amps you want. Before you look beyond SF, lets hear what you are trying to do. |
Well you might consider the Wilson Benesch. They are 88db sensitivity and very tube friendly. I use no more then 45 watts to rock.
I assume it is Ok if they sound better then sonus faber.
We have shown with the Wilson benesch Curves at the RMAF for about 6 years and they are very well received. |
