2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine

Hi Peter

Very nice write up for all the relevant components of the La Platine. A lot of information, and I did peak into the link from Audio Qualia which is new to me. The Magna Audio and Galibier Design sites, I am familiar, but never knew the ebony feet was meant for the La Platine. And It was a good surprise to see the motor - control from Galibier finally ready to be adapted to the La Platine. But at $2,999, a bit stiff for me. 

Your posts raised more questions, for me, than it answers. I’d like to fire a few and hope to learn more:

1. When you got the TT did it come with  Tron’s Battery powered motor only? Were you ever able to compare the ‘stock’ motor with it? There are quite a few reports of the sonic improvement of Tron’s battery powered motor here. Would like to have you elaborate more, if possible?

2. The Discussion on plinth material on the Audio Qualia site is very involved. It does seem that the research conducted favor resin as one of the optimal plinth material. And does that mean the LaPlatine produced by Auditorium23 with the resin / terrazzo plinth has better resonance characteristic and therefore sounds better tag the MDF ones? I know that @ct0517 who has commented here has the ‘ granite ‘ version, and touts the superiority of his deck. So granite deck better than mdf?

3. I don’t understand how the ebony feet from Magna Audio, which are beautiful btw, are attached ? Do you remove the existing aluminum feet by unscrewing? And what are the sonic benefits?

4. You have replaced the footers of the Symposium platform with Townshend pods. Why? That combination had occurred to me before, however, I had thought the Symposium couplers and the platform work in tandem?

I could go on, as you post provides much curiosity. I stop for now and waiting clarifications.

I had a Platine Verdier with the MDF plinth for a year or two.
It got slaughtered by my Final Audio VTT1 and hence I sold it off.

The following mods narrowed the performance gap -
I removed the sprung feet, and cut marine ply inserts with stainless steel thread inserts embedded. These were friction fitted into the cavities.
This enabled me to use rigid footers with adjustable height to level the deck. The removal of springy feet and installation of rigid footers improved timing and pitch stability ( in conjunction with the thread belt, which was superior to the rubber belt ).
I also used the supplied ball to ground the platter - using dial calipers I was able to keep the platter lift to about a thou of an inch, which meant minimal load on the ball. This mod cleaned up the high frequencies, but was quite subtle.
After comparing many mats I settled on a Barium Lead Acrylic composite manufactured for Sumiko in the 80’s, with a Final Audio record weight.
Lastly - the motor was crap. Very noisy. In the end I built a cradle clamp for the motor that sat underneath the top cover of the motor housing. The cradle enabed me to clamp the motor at multiple points. By adjusting pressure to the motor I found I could minimise the noise somewhat.
I also replaced the rubber feet on the motor unit with 3 adjustable feet so the motor could be precisely levelled.

Replacing the weedy motor drive with my Final Audio VM7 motor system - larger ac motor driven by dual sine and cosine wave generators and 60wpc power amp - showed that the Verdier motor is useless.

Similarly with the bearing tolerances. On my Final Audio which has a 26kg platter with an inverted bearing, it takes about 6 hours to get the platter down after relube. Compare this to the Verdier, where the platter goes straight down after relubing. In other words the bearing tolerances on the Verdier are appalling by most standards.

So in a nutshell, if the Verdier where my only TT I would go for the Callas bearing and find a better motor drive system. Probably replace the MDF plinth too. So the only useful parts in the Verdier are the platter and magnets - everything else requires upgrading.

Honestly, before offloading the Verdier, I compared it to a Pioneer broadcast idler with the same arm & cartridge mounted. This showed how out of control the Verdier was - the Verdier was more transparent, but the idler had better timing and pitch stability. Since then I built a Garrard 301 up for my 78’s - this ( again with same arm & cartidge ) creamed the Verdier by miles in every aspect, though still not in the league of my reference Final Audio.

Hi Ledoux1238 and dover

When i bought the Verdier it came complete with GT's modifications so i was unable to compare it with a standard Verdier. However, I did add another GT Verdier with the MDF plinth and the difference was noticable. Precision and detail and impact ,especially on good piano recordings. The motor and battery supply dropped the noise floor with an increase in detail and attack. So, to answer your question, then yes the Granito resin particulate plinth is significantly better than the MDF.

The ebony feet that i had made replaced the pneumatic feet completely. They had a stepped profile to fit the recess in the plinth.

The use of the Townshend pods is a fairly recent addition. Initiated by a discussion with graham tricker who had used a Townshend platform under all his equipment, including his TW TT. He had made thicker plates for the tops of the platforms. We spent some time comparing the diference with and without the platforms. As I had Symposium Ultra platforms unde all my equipment I just went and bought the appropriate pods.  The effect in my system was immediate, with a perception of space and depth to the music. Probably due to the increased isolation and by placing the constrained damping below the platform rather than under the TT plinth.

I probably agree with most of dover's points, but as I bought my Verdier with most of the potential downsides of the Verdier addressed then there was little for me to 'put right'. 

The comment about the bearing is an interesting one. I would agree with the pont made and that the Callas mod kit recognises this (I actually have the kit but not installed). JC Verdier designed his bearing intentionally with larger tollerances than you would expect.He used a specific oil and used it to incorporate a braking effect on the platter. He could certainly have done it differently if he wanted to. Also the original design did not include the steel ball at the top of the bearing on whch the platter can rest. The ball does a couple of things; provides a ground path for vibrationy/energy transfer and makes settling the platter easier. And,  yes, by varying the weight of the platter on the ball it does have an impact on the lower frequencies of the misic.

I think that the verdier is capable of great things; in particular it can be an extremely neutral transducer. It neither adds nor subtracts information. Very few TT do that. Having lived with a Goldmund Reference, Rockport, Garard 301, Well tempered Signature and Simon York S7 in the past I am now happy to live with what i have got.

so happy listening to everyone

 

 

@perart1 
I think we are on the same page. There is a lack of mechanical grunge that is where the Verdier shines over many other TT's. It has a very low noise floor. It is very enticing. I sold the Verdier to a friend who owned an SME20 and he was very happy - it was a big upgrade.
The main issue for me was the speed stability compared to my reference that I could never quite conquer, but there must be some answer.
My feeling would be to replace the motor with an ac hysteresis motor such as used in the old idlers. The standard Verdier motor is simply a small DC motor with an relatively loose power supply. I often thought the cheapest solution would be to use a Garrard motor or Empire motor with an appropriate speed controller. There are some great motors in the old idlers - the motor in my Pioneer broadcast idler is twice the size of the Garrard and substantially quieter. The AC motor used in the Final is roughly the same size as the Garrard, but you cant hear it running until your ear is about an inch away from the pulley and even then its only turbulence, no motor noise.

@ perart1 The disparity between MDF and Granito plinth is very informative. Not much discussion here. I suppose the same goes for the arm board. Solid wood (ebony ) or wood / brass combination trumps the MDF arm board, I'd imagine. 

The Callas Mod Kit, I think, deals with more than the bearing. The following is a link to a review of the mod kit: 
https://www.callas-audio.nl/Callas%20Platine%20Mod%20Kit%20Review.pdf
The reviewer reports on one of the most important aspect of the mod kit: the ability to control the magnetic force asserted on the platter. This in turn increases the bass performance of the La Platine. The reviewer claims that the Continuum Audio Caliburn turntable in fact has magnetic repulsion similar to La Platine. But the designer, Mark Dohmann, incorporated a mechanism for controlling the magnetic forces. That was the partial reason for the exorbitant price of the Calibrun.

@ Dover, I appreciate your frank assessment of the La Platine MDF version. The discussions here have confirmed that it is a TT that requires multiple increments of tweaks and improvements. There are plenty of advocates for the original motor, however, I appreciate your calling out its defects. While I have not done the battery powered conversion nor any of the Callas Audio tweaks, I believe I fall in the camp calling for wholesale replacement of the motor. The question is which motor to replace it with. I am leaning toward a motor that will work the thread drive, SOTA, Galibier..or perhaps your Final audio?