tough sounds to reproduce ???

Why didn't anyone mention violins in a symphonic orchestra. When many of these are playing together I find this the most difficult to reproduce. I always listen to violins when auditioning new equipment and it quickly gives me a sense of how good the product is.

Subaruguru, I guess I need to listen live piano more often to confirm what you are saying about the upper registers. May be I have to re-listen some very well recorded piano works (ref recordings/mapleshade). Thanks for your elaborate reply.

Subaruguru is right, but there's more to it. The reason the lower octaves are so difficult to reproduce is that when the piano is tuned properly by harmonics (more pianos are being tuned wrong now than ever--due to computerized tuning that doesn't take into account varying string lengths of different sized pianos) the lower notes excite strings of their harmonics. However, it is nearly impossible for a higher string to excite a lower note string because the mass of the lower string compared to the higher string is so great. There may be some excitement in this direct, but it's minimal. Those BIG Brahms chords were designed to have just this effect--and they sound great on a Steinway B. I have one as well--it's a dream to play and to listen to--and Subaruguru you can get those high notes voiced properly. Contact me if you like, I know some people that can work wonders on the older Steinways. Now, having said that--I can still reproduce a piano better than an Ocean. If you stop and think about the power of the sound of the ocean and the dynamics. You can speak to someone comfortably at a 2 to 5 foot distance. Get more than 20 feet away and you have to yell to overcome the sound of the ocean. It's an incredibly powerful sound--yet soothing at the same time. It has a side with greater sonic power, but it seems nearly omni-directional. It's easy to pick apart the areas of a piano that are not well reproduced, because we are familiar with it as sound and as music that we regularly reproduce--but that's not true of natural sounds--like the thunder mentioned. The next time you're at the ocean take a little time to indulge in the sound--you may think you've heard it reproduced before, but once you realize the vastness and power of the sound--you will see it really can't be reproduced. So, without any disrespect, I would very much like to know the system and recording that Nilthepill has been able to get an Ocean faithfully reproduced on. I will buy the recording tomorrow, and hopefully find a system to do it justice--I'm actually excited about trying this, because I've been trying to get something to reproduce the ocean for some time with no luck at all.

Excellent points about the piano that make sense Abstract. I find that many systems can reproduce the "weight" of a piano but lack the air and harmonic overtones that give this instrument its' signature sound and timbre. Then again, you are saying that many piano's themselves don't do this as well as they should ( due to improper tuning or excitation of harmonics ), so maybe the recording itself is good and the piano stinks : )

As to reproducing ANY "large" or "loud" sound in nature, i think that the "box" of a speaker gets in the way BIG TIME. Such sounds are typically NOT easily able to be "localized" yet box speakers will almost always contribute that effect to what you are hearing. Now i know that there are boxes that "literally disappear" when properly set up and fed with high quality signal, but it still isn't the same as a system that uses a very diffuse radiator. I think that the diffuse radiation pattern and room reflections can better simulate the "bigger than life" sounds that ARE hard to duplicate simply because they are closer to what we hear in nature. That would be "surround sound" combined with the direct radiated source.

Albert's post is also very interesting. If someone were to be able to "mic" such an event as they stood still and the band marched around them, you would literally hear the soundstage / image / tonal balance and doppler effect on each instrument changing instantaneously at the same time. Besides every section of the marching band having a few seconds of what would sound like a "solo" as they passed by, i think that this would be a HELLUVA challenge and a HELLUVA demo disc if someone could pull it off.

Now if we can only get a volunteer to record a direct lighting strike or nearfield bomb drop using the finest in recording equipment : ) Sean
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Abstract7, after some time I was able to dig up the Ocean sound disc that does justice.(close) The disc is 'the astral voyage' by Kitaro. Track 1 has the sound for first full minute and subsequently. Rightfully the track is called 'by the seaside'. Check it out. I tried again last night and found to be very close (very detailed) in my system (DUNLAVY V's with Classe electronics, turned on the REL also) Although at realistic sound level, the background noise level is rather high on this recording.