tough sounds to reproduce ???

An ocean is the hardest thing I've ever heard attempted to be reproduced. Walk down a beach one day and listen to the waves. They are so vaste and cover the entire frequency spectrum with a certain "ordered randomness" if that makes sense. I have never heard a system that could produce (and possibly could never be recorded) this properly.

Subaruguru is right, but there's more to it. The reason the lower octaves are so difficult to reproduce is that when the piano is tuned properly by harmonics (more pianos are being tuned wrong now than ever--due to computerized tuning that doesn't take into account varying string lengths of different sized pianos) the lower notes excite strings of their harmonics. However, it is nearly impossible for a higher string to excite a lower note string because the mass of the lower string compared to the higher string is so great. There may be some excitement in this direct, but it's minimal. Those BIG Brahms chords were designed to have just this effect--and they sound great on a Steinway B. I have one as well--it's a dream to play and to listen to--and Subaruguru you can get those high notes voiced properly. Contact me if you like, I know some people that can work wonders on the older Steinways. Now, having said that--I can still reproduce a piano better than an Ocean. If you stop and think about the power of the sound of the ocean and the dynamics. You can speak to someone comfortably at a 2 to 5 foot distance. Get more than 20 feet away and you have to yell to overcome the sound of the ocean. It's an incredibly powerful sound--yet soothing at the same time. It has a side with greater sonic power, but it seems nearly omni-directional. It's easy to pick apart the areas of a piano that are not well reproduced, because we are familiar with it as sound and as music that we regularly reproduce--but that's not true of natural sounds--like the thunder mentioned. The next time you're at the ocean take a little time to indulge in the sound--you may think you've heard it reproduced before, but once you realize the vastness and power of the sound--you will see it really can't be reproduced. So, without any disrespect, I would very much like to know the system and recording that Nilthepill has been able to get an Ocean faithfully reproduced on. I will buy the recording tomorrow, and hopefully find a system to do it justice--I'm actually excited about trying this, because I've been trying to get something to reproduce the ocean for some time with no luck at all.

Nil--I'll give it a try. I can try it on my system, a bi-amped Martin Logan Monoliths that have been modified with Focal Audiom bass drivers. Should have good dispersion--which is always a problem with oceans. Then I will also try it on a pair of Genesis 200s--no problem in creating the power there. I'm still skeptical--but I'll definitely try it.

Subaruguru, xirxling is not exactly what I was talking about, but it's close--it is in fact the right way to tune a piano. This device has been duplicated for PC applications and works remarkably well--even with a bad microphone and sound card--I'm still wondering how they manage that. The real problem is the simplistic computer systems that don't recognize the harmonics like the xirxling and tune all pianos the same--by note only. It just doesn't work that way--and it sounds horrible--but I'll bet more than 50% of the pianos out there are tuned by this method. There are two ways to tune it--the old fashioned way--get C right and tune everything else by ear (harmonics). I used to have a good tuner that did that--or now use the computer that has databased all the piano's out there--but keep in mind that database is just an average of all the Stienway B's (or other piano--for each piano in the database). There is no absolute--and most likely some error, as they don't take into account subtle changes--such as my 1878 Stienway that only has 85 keys--does that make a difference--I don't know, I doubt it.