BEST SUB FOR MUSIC

The new and first Martin Logan Sub is quite good.
Only $2500, and its not your basic black box. 3 ten inch aluminum woofers.
Look for one and give it a try.

Having never heard the Vandersteen, I cannot and will not comment on it. BUT it is clear that "dave@ultrahifi.com" knows nothing about the RELs either. One of the best features of the RELs is the flexibility of its hook-up and adjustments. As "tlhubbel" has stated, RELs can be connected to the speaker outputs of the power amp leaving the speaker to run full range - nothing in the signal path between preamp and amp. The first demo of a REL that I heard was by Allan Haggar of Sumiko (the REL importer) at Overture Audio in Ann Arbor with a pair of $3,500 Sonus Faber Grand Pianos. The sub was a Stentor III which was crossed over at only 23hz. It was absolutely seamless and even noticeably improved the ambience and soundstage of a piece of solo piano with no information under 60-70 hz. The sound was deep, taut and never overbloated - but, most importantly, always musical. Build quality is stunning and customer service is superb. But, as always, YMMV.

I don't have a ton of experience with subs, but I did hear the difference between Velodyne and a few others in the sub-$1k price range. I'm a very picky classical musician, and as far as I'm concerned, the Velodynes sounded like music, the rest sounded simply terrible.

I use to own a 15" Velodyne before going to a Rel and although Rels quality is superior it is still a trade off. I would compare the Velodyne to the manufacture's setting on your tv. Its made to jump out at you. The Rel is more like your tv's picture after using DVD essentials. More detail and overall better picture but it doesnt jump out at you as much.

There is no question the Velodyne, in the same price range, moves a lot more air then the Rel. A lot more. To get the same air movement of the 15" Velodyne I had to go to the Rel Stentor.

I think the Velodyne is something some would pefer in the showroom but the Rel is somethimg most would pefer after using it a bit. Its strange in a way that the Rel intergrates so well you forget its there at least until you turn it off. The Velodynes precense is never forgotten.

I would say that the Rel articulates your current system like a better pair of speaker wires and the Velodyne adds something new to it.

I agree that "dave@ultrahifi.com" comments should be ignored. I went to Ultrafi.com and what do you know, he is a Vandersteen dealer. Just a sales pitch disguised as advice. Even the information of his product the Vandersteen is misleading. The Vandersteen runs with a crossover between the preamp and amp along with the amp. He claims it runs off the amplifier. The REL is the one that runs directly off the amplifier outputs, which is why it integrates well. I will say the Vandersteen is a nice sub for $1200. It is a different animal. It replaces the bass produced by your main speakers (the crossover). The REL compliments and completes your main speakers running full range.