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Different Results between Record Cleaning Machines


The last thread on Record Cleaning Machines (RCMs) in 2009 covered the simple to the exotic in machinery.

RCMs haven't changed much since then, but AIVS has released 'Solution 15,' an enzyme cleaning solution, to augment their three bottle cleaning kit.

I have an older VPI RCM (the 16, not the 16.5). After cleaning with AIVS chemistry on my VPI my records, one Warner Brothers (Sweet Baby James), one RCA (Bridge Over Troubled Waters), both from 1970, didn't sound as quiet as the LPs cleaned on my friend's Loricraft using exactly the same chemistry and very similar technique. We noted a couple of things.

First, the stylus collected a *huge* amount of gunk --particularly from what was, at least chemically, a record cleaned with care, and according to AIVS instructions.

Second, after playing a couple of songs, we stopped, cleaned the stylus again, and played once more. The sound was drastically improved. Anyone have experience similar to this?

I'm a little skeptical about using an expensive TT, cartridge and stylus for auxiliary record cleaning.

Was it the 'gunk removal' that led to better sound with the second playback? Was the mold release compound coming off in globs with the needle carving its way down to the sound? Why was so much material caught on the stylus? And why didn't the RCM collect more of it?

Is the answer too obvious?

The VPI's vacuum motor is brand new. The table sounds like its bearings are arthritic when it rotates, but beside that, it turns with considerable torque.

Thanks in advance for any experience you might have about this.

At the moment I'm considering a Loricraft purchase. Anyone have a Lorcraft for sale?

Happy Thanksgiving,
128x128cdk84
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
In_shore, that tip came from my father in law, a British WW2 veteran and master machinist... world-wide indeed.

Good tip, Richard. Vaseline should not be used on natural rubber. In particular, vaseline is not a recommended lubricant for use with everybody's favorite all-natural latex products. In_shore, please note! ;)

Dave, I used it on the brass nipples where the clear air hoses slip on. Improved vacuum performance and they're not rubber so it should do no harm.
salectric
747 posts
 
Thanks Doug. I'll give it a try.
cdk84's avatar
cdk84 OP
70 posts
 
Spoke with Jim Pendleton (of AIVS) this morning. He was *great,* taking the time necessary to answer every one of my questions.

He first asked if I knew the cleaning history of the albums. As a control in my cleaning experiment, I cleaned an album I bought new, in 1970, and another of the same vintage, recently acquired from a local collector.

Jim listened to the symptoms (reported in the first entry of this listing), then asked about my technique (which followed the AIVS directions to a 'T'). He then suggested that the gunk found on my friend's stylus after playing my 'cleaned' LPs was very possibly mold release agent that had hardened over the years. [Forty years *is* kind of a long time...]

His recommendation was that I clean a second time. Apologizing for the use of extra solution, he suggested in future when cleaning LPs of this age or earlier, *two* consecutive passes of Solution 15 were advisable, followed by completing the regular sequence of chemicals and rinses to complete the cycle.

As a control for this experiment, he suggested cleaning one of the two 1970 vintage records with my friend's Loricraft to see if that does a better job. That, along with cleaning another LP of like vintage on the Loricraft --one that has *not* been cleaned on my VPI-- should give some insight into the efficacy of my particular VPI (Model 16, factory converted to 16.5 spec, with new vacuum motor) as well as comparing the Loricraft vs [my] VPI 16/16.5's performance.

When all this is done, I'll report back.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Best,
David
nrenter's avatar
nrenter
765 posts
 
I interpret gunk on yous stylus after a wet cleaning to mean a loosening and redepositing of contaminants, therefore an incomplete vacuum extraction. This would be an easy hypothesis to test:

1. Play a "uncleaned" record. Check for gunk.
2. Clean that record. Play it. Check for gunk.
3. Play that record again. Check for gunk.

If the most gunk is gathered after Step 2, my hypothesis has some merit.

Not sure if possible, but perhaps use a different pad on your vacuum wand? Perhaps creating one out of a Disk Doctor wet scrub replacement pad. This would provide the added benefit of little "fingers" to help dig into the groove and wick out moisture and gunk. Just a thought.
peterayer
1,382 posts
 
Nrenter,

I agree that it seems from the OP that contaminants aren't being removed by the vacuum step. However, if he follows your 3 steps, shouldn't the record get cleaner each time he plays it by the simple fact that the stylus is scooping out more of the gunk each time? I don't see how he could ever get more gunk on the stylus later in the process.
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