I see the issue with ABX blind testing


I’ve followed many of the cable discussions over the years with interest. I’ve never tested cables & compared the sound other than when I bought an LFD amp & the vendor said that it was best paired with the LFD power cord. That was $450 US and he offered to ship it to me to try & if I didn’t notice a difference I could send it back. I got it, tried it & sent it back. To me there was no difference at all.

Fast forward to today & I have a new system & the issue of cables arises again. I have Mogami cables made by Take Five Audio in Canada. The speaker wire are Mogami 3104, XLRs are Mogami 2549 & the power cords are Powerline 10 with Furutech connectors. All cables are quite well made and I’ve been using them for about 5 years. The vendor that sold me the new equipment insisted that I needed "better" cables and sent along some Transparent Super speaker & XLR cables to try. If I like them I can pay for them.

In every discussion about cables the question is always asked, why don’t you do an ABX blind test? So I was figuring out how I’d do that. I know the reason few do it. It’s not easy to accomplish. I have no problem having a friend come over & swap cables without telling me what he’s done, whether he swapped any at all etc. But from what I can see the benefit, if there is one, will be most noticeable system wide. In other words, just switching one power cable the way I did before won’t be sufficient for you to tell a difference... again, assuming there is one. So I need my friend to swap power cables for my amp/preamp & streamer, XLR cables from my streamer to my preamp, preamp to amp & speakers cables. That takes a good 5-10 minutes. There is no way my brain is retaining what I previously heard and then comparing it to what I currently hear.

The alternative is to connect all of the new cables, listen for a week or so & then switch back & see if you feel you’re missing anything. But then your brain takes over & your biases will have as much impact as any potential change in sound quality.

So I’m stumped as to how to proceed.

A photo of my new setup. McIntosh MC462, C2700, Pure Fidelity Harmony TT, Lumin T3 & Sonus Faber Amati G5 & Gravis V speakers.

dwcda

It seems that most people on both sides of the cable debate accept the fact that the placebo effect is real... if someone is in pain & a doctor gives you a placebo & tells you that it will cure your pain, you may find pain relief. If a sighted test of cables produces a wonderous ability to hear differences in those cables, the way it did earlier on this thread with the YT video showing 4 different power cables, would you want to pay for the more expensive cable  if you knew that it was merely a placebo, and that your inability to see the cables made that difference recognition disappear? IMO I don't  want to pay for the  placebo, whether we're talking about medicine or audio gear. With medicine the underlying  problem causing the  pain still exists & hasn't been treated. With my audio system I  don't  want to stitch my audio equipment together with very, very expensive bits of magic that my brain has been fooled into believing make a difference. 

So these discussions happen & will continue to happen because there is real medicine that actually solves problems and those that believe in the underlying science of medicine are trying to convince people not to spend thousands of $$$ on the placebo. 

@jetter Because people DON'T want to know the truth about what they spend. It seems much of this hobby is about ego, more than just music reproduction. That is all these systems do. The Deal blind test was a flawed one because he never left the room and could see people switching equipment. Hence, why I put up the video I did. I applaud Kevin for trying, though. That is more than I can say for the naysayers.

I care little about how much people spend or what equipment they have, to be honest. It is their money, and they can do with it as they see fit. 

@jetter I’m not against blind testing at all and would welcome it given the opportunity and would incorporate the results into my decision making. It’s just that some here think it’s impossible to overcome our biases or make good or valid judgements on equipment without blind testing and that bias overrides all listening impressions that aren’t blind, and that I don’t agree with at all. Especially for experienced audiophiles serious and knowledgeable about sound, biases can influential but are not determinative. As usual the reality probably resides in the middle where both what we hear and our inherent biases are involved, but I’m not in the camp where biases are necessarily determinative although I’m sure it’s true in some cases but certainly not all as some would have you think.

I am not against blind ABX testing- when done properly.  A single person doing an ABX blind test might give them comfort and security that they are making the right choice but those results are meaningless to me.  It still comes down to that person's personal preference.  So why look down on me or thumb your nose at me because I do not want to take the time and trouble to do my own personal blind ABX test?  From my viewpoint if a person cannot trust themselves to make a decision that they will be happy with, then don't do it.  

A real blind ABX test would be conducted by a panel of jurists and would be repeatable with a different panel of jurists on a different day and different locations.  

All the YouTuber did was validate his own preference with his own ABX blind test.  He didn't even mention his preference because it would be meaningless to us.  I also got a chuckle when he said that Danny guessed right 8 out of 10 times but he guess right 18 out of 20 times with his own test.  So he guessed right one more time than Danny but somehow Danny's results are insignificant while his results are valid.  Funny math.

@tonywinga If you ACTUALLY watched the video, what the YT person said was true about the Danny test. Since he was in the room when switching cables, that can be seen a even a slight biasing of the results. The other thing, if you look at DBT, they usually do more than 10, and even 20 tests, as the more one does, the mare statistically significant it is. What he said was NOT wrong. Hence why DBT’s are super hard to do.

Ever look the Boston Audio Society website? They used to do DBT testing all the time. Even in the magazines 1980’s, at the time, there was a great article called; ’Do amplifiers sound the same?’ It was a great read.