I see the issue with ABX blind testing

Well, to the 'Golden ears' how were you trained? When I think of training of the senses, I think of how Sommeliers are trained. They are trained on taste, smell, grape, terrior, etc. They are all trained the same way. No audiophile is trained that way, unless they are a musician. Otherwise, just listening to cables is like being home schooled. That is all ego, all it is, to think one is as good as say as sommelier.

Sorry, that is why blind testing is important it takes the ego out of it.

I am sorry that blind testing is so hard. I mean, that is how drugs, etc. are tested. Yes, it would take some planning but can be done. After all the Boston Audio Society did it with amplifiers in the 1980's. It can be done.

Just remember, our brains only a small amount of heard information, when doing comparisons.

This is why most dealers, tell you what you are hearing, play it the piece, tell you again, and then play it again. They are reinforcing that information in your brain.

It is amazing how much our brains fill in, which isn't there.

Hence why blind ABX testing is the ultimate way to prove whether or not something is improved.

@mahgister I do not - I have been involved in blind ABX testing in audio and in science.

How the Brain Fills in the Blanks | Psychology Today

Your brain is filling the blanks. Don’t believe us? Try this… - COVE | Center of Visual Expertise (covectr.com)

There is more information out there, just like this. Our brain doesn’t change what it does because we say it is audio.

@mahgister Sorry - it is not 'Pop-psychology' it is based on what has been learned from studying animals and humans. If you think that, sorry.

This really explains it all.

@tonywinga Then enjoy. The point being our brain is a bias machine. That is what it does as it is a survival mechanism. Realize the placebo affect can be so strong that people believing that a sugar pill is the strongest opioid in the world, will say their pain is gone. This has been demonstrated over and over. Everything is affected as well. I mean everything we do is affected by it.

If you don’t want to understand, enjoy.

@tonywinga I have no anxiety at all. In fact, I have none.

I was just saying much of what audiophiles actually hear is this bias. I care less what people spend their money on. 

@soix I have eaten blindfolded before. My wife took me once to a restaurant that specialized in blindfolded dining. It was to say an eye-opening experience. I didn't appreciate it at the time, but on reflection should have appreciated the lesson taught there.

I have a friend in France, who knows a blind audiophile and HIS take on musicality and equipment is interesting to hear. People should be open to the idea of blind testing. It doesn't take away anything, but it might save people money and the charlatans in the audio field, wouldn't survive (and there are plenty of them out there).

The point being, sighted listening, IS BIASED listening. Say what you will, there is a reason it is the gold standard for testing w/o biases.

We can agree to disagree, but my point is valid and based on science.

@jetter Because people DON'T want to know the truth about what they spend. It seems much of this hobby is about ego, more than just music reproduction. That is all these systems do. The Deal blind test was a flawed one because he never left the room and could see people switching equipment. Hence, why I put up the video I did. I applaud Kevin for trying, though. That is more than I can say for the naysayers.

I care little about how much people spend or what equipment they have, to be honest. It is their money, and they can do with it as they see fit. 

@tonywinga If you ACTUALLY watched the video, what the YT person said was true about the Danny test. Since he was in the room when switching cables, that can be seen a even a slight biasing of the results. The other thing, if you look at DBT, they usually do more than 10, and even 20 tests, as the more one does, the mare statistically significant it is. What he said was NOT wrong. Hence why DBT’s are super hard to do.

Ever look the Boston Audio Society website? They used to do DBT testing all the time. Even in the magazines 1980’s, at the time, there was a great article called; ’Do amplifiers sound the same?’ It was a great read.

@tonywinga Everyone knows Red cars are faster and sexier 🤣

Sorry - couldn't help it.

@soix Sorry you feel that way. I am a trained scientist and I know how skewed our internal system is. As I said, it is part and parcel of our survival mechanism. I do not trust ’golden ears’ because they are just as biased as the rest of us and as you age, hearing degrades, period.

The point being is that blind testing, if done right takes out all that bias out, however small it is.

I would say, it is the golden ears ones that are scared to find out all the massive expensive cables are just that, massive and expensive. When they say, ’aka people who can’t or haven’t developed the ability to use/trust their own ears’ I am done with the discussion as arrogance rules the day.

Hey, if you don’t like fungi, don’t eat mushrooms. drink Tokai or Sauternes, drink saki, eat blue cheese, use soy sauce/miso or many other naturally fermented products.

As I said, I am out of this discussion. Enjoy all.

@mahgister None of it is standardized. Even in Grad School there was some standardization. Same with working in a distillery - tasting panels are standardized and they basically look for certain things. There is NONE of that in audiophiledom, period.

That IS the point, isn’t it? If we all had one standard, then there can be differences based on personal taste, but good wines and whiskey have specific characters, then they add the unique characteristics above that.

Even your word salad, is just that. You seem to be the only one following your system.

@audphile1 I was the lab manager and fermentation expert at a distillery. We had to be trained for tasting. The American Distillers Institute has classes on it. They use base flavors and fragrances to train with. This way, one can use the same descriptors etc, for the products.

Ever see a wine wheel or whiskey wheel, probably not. Or you wouldnt be so dismissive and arrogant. Whiskey taste wheel Wine aroma wheel

Y'all really don't get it.