MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?


Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas

Sadly, the London Decca Reference cartridge is no longer available.

The new owner tells me he hopes to have them back in production, along with a new version by August of this year. Perhaps then there will be no need for a few lone voices in the wilderness to keep enthusiasm alive for these wonderful cartridges. I have never heard an Epoch3, but I do know my Statement3 doesn't come close to the sound of a cartridge with no cantilever. In my view, it is the absence of the cantilever that makes all the difference, rather than the moving iron nature of them. I was interested to hear that Raul reports the Ikeda MC variant on the concept sounds similar. I wish it were still available.

Dear @knock1 : " I always picked center of the main floor, the difference in just a few rows was really something. Therefore it comes a conundrum, how one is to know the "correct" sound of an orchestra, a band or an instrument itself?  "

 

We can't know for sure but only when we seated in the venuelistening it.

I almost always ( for comparisons. ) talk of live MUSIC as reference.If we don't attend often/frequently to listen live MUSIC thenagainst what we are comparing what we listen in the home room/system. We just can't do it and with out first hand live MUSIC experiences we only can say that what we are listening in our home audio system is " what I like ".

No,wecan't mimic in any home roo/system the live MUSIC experiencesbut if we are interested in true MUSIC enjoyment then that must be our reference and yes as you posted :

 

" I think that that comparison to LIVE performance is a very complex issue. "

 

But for me it's themoreideal tool at our handstomake those kind of tests.

 

R.

 

 

The search for the Holy Grail.  Frankly there is no right answer for a number of reasons:  Everything changes with time especially technology; the live music reference is not an accurate gauge because every live venue is different; every recording is different - who mastered it? - what mics were used? - How many?  Artists have good days and not so good days;  Ask any reed player how consistent reeds are;  ask any piano player how good the piano was; ask everyone involved in the recording how the acoustics of the studio or stage or wherever were; the list of variables in the live part is endless.  Then in addition to the variable of the cartridge itself we must consider the interface: wire, tonearm, perhaps headshell, phono stage, cables.  The answer, the only answer is to chose what sounds good to you that is compatible with your needs and your budget.  Most importantly, have fun.

+1 @billstevenson Using live music as a standard for reproduced music by a stereo in a home is really a farce much like “The Absolute Sound” is a farce (as are their reviews, but that’s another story). Most music is recorded in a studio save for maybe classical, so should even studio recordings be made to sound live even if they weren’t recorded or intended by the recording engineer to sound that way? That’s just misplaced and misinterpreting what’s on the recording not unlike if a playwright’s script is changed to alter the story/meaning of a play counter to the original intent. That’s counter to what “high fidelity” is. The definition of “fidelity” from Webster’s dictionary is:

the quality or state of being faithful, accuracy in details : EXACTNESS, the degree to which an electronic device (such as a record player, radio, or television) accurately reproduces its effect (such as sound or picture)

If something is recorded live or made to sound live it should be reproduced that way and likewise for studio recordings intended to sound like studio recordings — to do otherwise is by definition not even fidelity much less high fidelity. So why apply a standard of live music when it doesn’t even apply to a lot of music we listen to? That’s just unrealistic and untruthful, but if someone’s goal is to make everything somehow sound live more power to them. Although for me using live music is not a proper or useful bar, I think Bill said it best in his above post…

The answer, the only answer is to chose what sounds good to you that is compatible with your needs and your budget. Most importantly, have fun.

 

Dear @soix @billstevenson  :  Both are rigth as is @knock1  ( please read wmy answer posted to him.

The issue is only these:

 

How do you know a flugehorn kind of sound, or the kind of sound of a double bass or a piano instrument if you never heard it live?

In this thread what we will try to find out is which kind of cartridge design/cartridge motor ( everything the same that is a premise on the OP. ) performs faithful and accurated to MUSIC.

 

Tha's all. I'm not trying to analize live MUSIC and all its implications involved or the recording proccess: NO.

 

R.