MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?

There isn't a definitive answer to this, Raul. Everything is a trade-off. There is likely an aphorism to be made out of "dynamics, details, low cost - pick any two"!

For me, I'm very happy to use my MI cartridges that can go up against more expensive LOMCs. I think everyone knows my favourites so I won't repeat myself. I think they provide the best price:quality ratio.

Hyperion vs Epoch3? Yes, interesting. I've compared their little brothers (Sussurro and Statement3) and have a clear preference. If Stewart does start manufacture of the London Reference again in August, you'll need a three-way competition!

The best LOMC I have (LP-S) is close to the sound of the London Decca Reference, but the Decca wins. If I had to live forever with just the Sussurro or the MP-500 I would cope just fine.

As a child, the record player at home had a ceramic cartridge, and when I bought my first amplifier (in 1976), one could select ceramic or magnetic inputs on it. Excuse my ignorance, but I'm assuming there were separate inputs as they have differing output voltages? How do connect your ceramic cartridge these days, @pindac ?

I have read (maybe it was here) that someone asked PL why he makes LOMI/MIMC cartridges, and he replied that it was purely because there was a demand for them, but he did not think there was any benefit himself.

"Strange creature"? That's me, for sure.

Maybe, but we might be asking ourselves who is being a bully here?

Sadly, the London Decca Reference cartridge is no longer available.

The new owner tells me he hopes to have them back in production, along with a new version by August of this year. Perhaps then there will be no need for a few lone voices in the wilderness to keep enthusiasm alive for these wonderful cartridges. I have never heard an Epoch3, but I do know my Statement3 doesn't come close to the sound of a cartridge with no cantilever. In my view, it is the absence of the cantilever that makes all the difference, rather than the moving iron nature of them. I was interested to hear that Raul reports the Ikeda MC variant on the concept sounds similar. I wish it were still available.

Surely tension/release is a neurological matter rather then one created by a skilled orchestra, a good venue or a fine cartridge? We talk of joyful music, sad music and so on, but we are simply describing the emotions it engenders in our minds, not in the music. It is interesting that we generally agree on the emotions that music causes: it gives a small insight into the way our brains work. One of the admirable qualities about Puccini was that he wrote in emotions as much as in melodies; he had the ability (was it conscious?) to reach straight into one's thalamus and manipulate the emotions. Probably heightened by all the excitement of a live performance, where travelling there, dressing up, the set, the costumes, and finally the music all contribute to the final effect of leaving me weeping.

I want my music reproduction to work at several levels:

—I want the detailed timbres of an intimate venue chamber recital or solo voice reproduced so I can hear them as if I were there, I want to hear how much rosin is on the horsehair

—I want my feet to tap from the musicality of it all, which is simply a physical manifestation of how successfully the music is dominating all other mental processes

—I want that emotional experience

But then, I'm easily satisfied...

I think stylus profile has more to do with the amount of groove noise than the type of motor at the top of the cantilever (honorable exception: a mono cartridge that is insensitive to vertical motion).

@frogman Thank you for the link: I do know that musicologists regard tension and release as something written on the stave. My point was why is they can say that? Why do we all, or nearly all, recognise what the music is doing to us? That must belong to the realm of neurology, even if we don't have the foggiest idea of how.

@mijostyn After a day of experimentation yesterday, I'm of the opinion that the Sussurro MkII ES sounds different this time because it is awfully sensitive to VTA - I believe I have read that the Soundsmith OCL stylus looks a lot like an Ortofon Replicant. For the first time I'm seeing why Soundsmith cartridges are so beloved by their owners. Once I had fiddled with that, I ended up playing albums on the LP-S, Sussurro and Decca Reference. The LP-S plays them in a coolly clinical way, detailed but not necessarily involving (and this is supposed to be a relatively lush MC!). The Sussurro would be a great way of getting a non-vinyl person to see why they might try it out. It's warm, bouncy and rich, but still has nearly all the detail of the LP-S, if a bit less clarity. The Decca is somewhere between those extremes. I wish I were in a position to try The Voice and a Hyperion too. (I cannot speak about imaging or soundstage, having one ear and no ability to hear stereo.)

@rauliruegas You're right that rare live attendances at live music won't make much impression. I wonder whether the kind of performance makes a difference too? I used to go to half a dozen operas a year, so I feel I know what one ought to sound like (for that hall etc). My next door neighbour before my last move used to offer piano and chamber recitals in a purpose built space in her home, and often remarks how much she likes to listen to my hi-fi. I have very little exposure to small venue jazz, folk or vocals, so I may be less critical about those kinds of music. I suppose that at the end of it all, as long as we enjoy what we use, we should be happy. It just makes it harder to describe the sound of a cartridge to others if we don't share a reference point.

I have a new Hyperion MR, but I can not really comment on it yet. It is a little brighter than I like and I will be able to EQ it shortly. Then I will listen more carefully and comment.

Looking forward to that. I could raid the retirement savings if I had to do so.

Anyway, I am rarely bothered by the sense that noise is a problem with LO cartridges. What I sense when comparing let’s say a good LOMC to a good MI cartridge is that the LOMC always seems just a tad lean compared to real music and compared to what the best MI cartridges can do. With the latter on average I get a greater sense of the real.

Exactly! My impression is that my LP-S and the Sussurro make two endpoints, and the Decca Reference sits between them.

I've been inspired to read about Induced Magnet and Variable Reluctance cartridges as variations on the Moving Iron concept as a result of this thread. It always seemed a bit odd to classify a Decca as being the same thing as a Grado or a Soundsmith or Nagaoka, and now I have alternative names available! Decca used neither, I think, preferring to call it a tip-sensing design.

@avanti1960 What was the $2k MI cartridge? If you don't want to say it out loud you could always PM me. I'm suspecting an Aida based on the price.

Perhaps we should consider, without getting quasi-philosophical, to what extent musical experiences are transferable? In other words, will one man's "best" cartridge be perceived as being the "best" by someone else? Put it like that and it seems very likely that it will not.

We always end up suggesting and promoting what we like, and that is, after all, pretty much to be expected. But someone else's preference is at best a suggestion for consideration. It is important to listen for ourselves, and to trust our own subjective experience. Fear Of Missing Out is a lousy guide to buying equipment, and while it allows us to feel like an accepted member of the tribe, it does not necessarily provide us with the most enjoyable musical experiences.

I have not heard a Hyperion, let alone the special MkII MR version, but I expect it is as sensitive to VTA as the Sussurro. I'm ashamed that it took me a couple of years to discover what I had been missing with the Sussurro. I wouldn't dismiss the Hyperion on one hearing in someone else's system that you yourself could not adjust.

I've never experienced mistracking with either the Jubilee or the Reference!