Streaming through upconverting DAC - can I even improve audio quality?


New to streaming but have been at this hobby for over 50 years.  Started by getting a Marantz SA-10 SACD player that enables streaming through its DAC only via SPIDF.  The SA-10 upconverts everything to DSD 11.2.  So I started with ifi Zen Stream via ethernet, good Belden 75 ohm cable, then upgraded streamer to ifi's linear power supply, which made an improvement I could hear through balance of system, Luxman 590axii and Yamaha NS-5000 loudspeakers.  Sounds good so I'v e started to look at other streamers thinking it could get better, including the new Eversolo DMP-A8 (where I could use its DAC or the Marantz) and even the $5200 HIfi Rose RS-130 (streamer only).  But here's the thing:  so far, just using free Spotify 44.1 redbook quality, 1) since the Marantz upconverts everything to DSD 11.2 would I gain anything from a premium streaming subscription? and 2) the Ifi's femto clock and it's purifier noise removal works on the signals into the unit (clock) and then out (purifier on coax) and then the Marantz' dual clocks take over, so is there anything to be gained with a different streamer's clock? Or have I gotten the quality to about as good as its going to get without investing significantly more in another higher end DAC and streamer?  Should I be able to get SACD quality via streaming or maybe I'm getting that now and it's just that streaming sounds different than a SACD.

Ag insider logo xs@2xeisen0169

Upsampling does not add more data to a source. Nada! Therefore useless! It's not like analog where a more advanced stylus profile will follow those tiny groove undulations to extract more musical detail. 

Yes, I'm understanding it now and have been researching.  I will do some more listening to the same music I know well on CD, SACD,and streaming via Spotify and Quobuz.  Thanks, everyone.

OP, your speakers and amp are way above average. If you're going to get in the world of streaming, IMO your streamer should be on equal footing with the rest of your components. My suggestion is to look for something like Innuos Zenith MK3 or Aurender N100. Yes they are expensive, but with a system like yours you will absolutely appreciate what they bring to the table. 

Another benefit of these particular streamers is that they provide a way to store music locally via the built-in hard-drives (SSD). In essence, they act not only as a streamer but also a music server. Why is that important? Well, first you can rip your CDs and play them via the streamer (or music server to be more precise). Second, there is a ton of high resolution music that you can purchase from many online stores. These units will make it easy to organize all kinds of music. IMO, a lot of high-res music (e.g. 192/24 or DSD) sounds better when played via local storage vs. streaming from services like Qobuz, albeit, they are surely closing the performance gap.

Lastly, please ditch Spotify. Go with Qobuz or Tidal, and enjoy the music!

Your player should allow true high res on its usb input

 

If you play quobuzz or tidal you will get high res 24 192k sampling which does sound better then a cd at 44k as per your dac it is probably not upconverting but changing pcm to dsd internally and even so a higher data rate sple gives the dacs input a better sample to work with which may still sound superior

 

You will get far better sound with a much more advanced server

We import the 432evo servers amd they sound amazing and beat both Innous and aurrender see the threads here

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box.787020/page-99

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/upgraded-from-node-to-432-evo-aeon-music-server-and-its-another-world-s

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/new-dac-or-new-streamer?lastpage=true&page=3#2512774

 

Also running usb should sound better then spdif as usb offers asyncronous data transmision

DAVE and Troy

AUDIO INTELLECT NJ

US importer 432EVO music servers

 

 

I don’t mean to pick on the OP or engage in Audio Heresy, but it’s interesting that he has been listening to a compromised source, namely Spotify Free, and enjoying it. It isn’t until others have been pointing out how compromised his source is that he is starting to become seriously concerned. Now, the OP states he is a veteran listener, and speaking as someone who just flunked his hearing test, some of that may be due to an age related loss in auditory acuity. However it is more likely that Spotify is doing its job with its algorithm.

I have spent a large chunk of my background listening the last 10 years to a radio station, Radio Venice, that sounds pretty good. Fire up a CD on the same system and the improvement becomes obvious, but listening in isolation, I can and have whiled away time listening with much pleasure. I was surprised to discover, when I purchased a streamer that displayed bit rates, that it broadcasts at 128 bps. Listening critically I can tell that my local Classical station, WFMT, which broadcasts at 320 bps, sounds better, in terms of more air around the musicians. However, instrumental tone is largely preserved at the lower bit rate. I always thought that iTunes over a mid Fi system or headphones sounded pretty good. There are some low bit rate stations however that sound awful. The BBC Radio3 probably sounded better to the French Resistance listening clandestinely in WW II than I can get. I don’t think that bit rates tell the entire story. There have to be differences in the algorithms that make a significant determinant in audio quality.  I used to subscribe to Spotify years ago and always thought they sounded pretty good, and remember thinking that Ogg Vorbis must be a superior compression system.

My main experience with upsampling comes from a DAC that I used about 15 years ago, when I know my hearing was better. It would upsample to 96 and 192 I listened mainly to CDs sourced from whatever my CD player was back then. I remember for the most part being impressed by the lower upsampling setting. It seemed to expand the soundstage, particularly in the front to back positioning of the Orchestra. The higher upsampling rate however sounded off from the get go. It seemed like the same soundstage was moth eaten, as if there were gaps in it. Eventually I just went fo no upsampling.